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Frankenstein 10PA 17C replaces seized 10PA 15L compressor.
- Thread starter frank rabbets
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Frank, i cant believe you forgot about your brother in stroud with the old fashioned manual machine..
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Well It's just a bit further than popping down the road. Once the air con is up and running I won't be so fussy about where to go for a regas. If there is a problem at least I'll be able to sort it out as I'm taking all my spares with me.
I called into the local scrap yard and found what looked like a 17c on an early RAV 4 but it looked like a nightmare to get off. If it were mine I'd have cut all the stuff out of the way with an angle grinder. Useful to know though.
I called into the local scrap yard and found what looked like a 17c on an early RAV 4 but it looked like a nightmare to get off. If it were mine I'd have cut all the stuff out of the way with an angle grinder. Useful to know though.
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@Frank, mind how you go with the numbers Frank. Some have similar numbers and capacities but the bolt positions are off by IIRC 10mm?
I have in the past had a unit that did not bolt straight up, as it was a new unit the customer had purchased we had some offset mounts made up for it. The car is still owned by a 'MUD' member who I am still in contact with, AFAIK it has not given any problems, but keep it in mind when scavenging.
regards
Dave
I have in the past had a unit that did not bolt straight up, as it was a new unit the customer had purchased we had some offset mounts made up for it. The car is still owned by a 'MUD' member who I am still in contact with, AFAIK it has not given any problems, but keep it in mind when scavenging.
regards
Dave
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Thanks Dave I was just going to phone them and pay them to take it off and risk it's condition but I think I'll leave it or when I am very bored go down and remove it.
Taking the tape measure with you!
BTW, you forgot you own an 80, you will NEVER be bored!regards
Dave
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Air con now works perfectly.
We vacuumed the system for 20 mins until a bell went off telling us that the limit of vacuum for the machine had been achieved then we left it for a further 45 mins before adding the refrigerant. No problems at all. The journey home was 1 1/4 hours and I left the ac on all the time, if the pump was going to fail it would have done so by now.
We vacuumed the system for 20 mins until a bell went off telling us that the limit of vacuum for the machine had been achieved then we left it for a further 45 mins before adding the refrigerant. No problems at all. The journey home was 1 1/4 hours and I left the ac on all the time, if the pump was going to fail it would have done so by now.
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Thanks again for the help Dave and others.
I parked up when I got home and tried to turn the compressor shaft by hand after 2 hours. It was very stiff. You could rotate it a few degrees easily then it began to stiffen up. I assume this was gas pressure but why, after some time, had this pressure not been relieved by the nozzle in the evaporator?
I parked up when I got home and tried to turn the compressor shaft by hand after 2 hours. It was very stiff. You could rotate it a few degrees easily then it began to stiffen up. I assume this was gas pressure but why, after some time, had this pressure not been relieved by the nozzle in the evaporator?
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My air con pump " cycles" i.e. cuts in and out as it should. I'm trying to work out the electrical side of things. I know there is a relay on the evaporator housing which clicks and feeds/cuts power to the A/C clutch but what feeds the relay ?
Take your point about compressing gas Dave but I could spin my old pump round with my fingers. Perhaps it was not very gas tight lol.
3 hour journey today and the air con works really well in fact a bit too well sometimes and I have to keep adjusting the slider to maintain a constant temperature. I wonder if my 15L design 80 is not able to cope with the higher capacity 17L ?
Take your point about compressing gas Dave but I could spin my old pump round with my fingers. Perhaps it was not very gas tight lol.
3 hour journey today and the air con works really well in fact a bit too well sometimes and I have to keep adjusting the slider to maintain a constant temperature. I wonder if my 15L design 80 is not able to cope with the higher capacity 17L ?
Hence a larger pulley would give less duty from the compressor. One possibility is you could end up freezing the evaporator solid rather than maintaining the equilibrium which allows it to drip moisture rather than freeze. Not sure on that one.
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Good idea about the larger pulley but it incorporates the clutch assy. The 17 is about 10% larger than the 15.
My vents get to 5 deg C , no lower.
Funnily enough if I put the controls on "auto" I get an stable temperature.
My vents get to 5 deg C , no lower.
Funnily enough if I put the controls on "auto" I get an stable temperature.
There are some 15c s or 15ls on eBay from an Avensis that have a larger pulley, which would probably be a straight swap. But then you would have a 15 to go with your 17… hmmm…!
Sounds like it's going to be fine in actual fact if it gets to 5c and holds well on 'auto'. Probably worth seeing what it's like in the summer when it doesn't feel cold against cooler outdoor temperatures.
Sounds like it's going to be fine in actual fact if it gets to 5c and holds well on 'auto'. Probably worth seeing what it's like in the summer when it doesn't feel cold against cooler outdoor temperatures.
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The evaporator sensor/ecu/trinary switch controls the relay Frank, the cycling is completely normal and indicative of a system working efficiently. The 'auto' function is working with input from the other sensors so it is in effect 'anticipating' the temperature changes and bringing in the compressor control ECU. I too find myself 'fiddling' with the slider until I concede the 'AUTO' is just a little better at keeping the temp right than I am.
Other things will effect the compressor cycle for instance, the VC on the cooling fan, road speed, cleanliness of the condenser/radiator core/outside temperature and so forth. My use of an electric fan and trinary switch control of the same has made my system very effective as per my thread on MUD. The newer more modern systems are more 'clever' and efficient at compressor/temperature control but, it seems you are more or less getting the best from 'our' antiquated systems, if you want to keep the VC fan then consider the Toyota optional additional electric fan that sits in front of the condenser.
regards
Dave
Other things will effect the compressor cycle for instance, the VC on the cooling fan, road speed, cleanliness of the condenser/radiator core/outside temperature and so forth. My use of an electric fan and trinary switch control of the same has made my system very effective as per my thread on MUD. The newer more modern systems are more 'clever' and efficient at compressor/temperature control but, it seems you are more or less getting the best from 'our' antiquated systems, if you want to keep the VC fan then consider the Toyota optional additional electric fan that sits in front of the condenser.
regards
Dave
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Yes I realised that the cycling was normal but just wanted to know how it worked.
I'm very pleased with the pump and with all original Toyota parts I should not have trouble with my air con for years..............hopefully.
I'm very pleased with the pump and with all original Toyota parts I should not have trouble with my air con for years..............hopefully.
Since my compressor died on the way back from Stratford last year I haven't really done anything with it. So last weekend I had all the gas reclaimed out of it and took it off as I had found a brand new one at the right money. All I would need to do was to swap the pulley and pipe adapter…or so I thought.
It arrived today and I proceeded to swap the pulleys and…oh dear, same 15C compressor, different front fixings as it was for a John Deere Tractor.
So I've kind of got my own Franky going in my 80!!
so I decided to get some adapters made (pics of them later) and a longer belt to make it fit.
Meanwhile I pulled out the filter drier. It's located behind the left hand indicator.
Not too tricky to remove but the bolts need care when undoing as they can be pretty stiff. New O rings are going on all round, plus sealant.
It arrived today and I proceeded to swap the pulleys and…oh dear, same 15C compressor, different front fixings as it was for a John Deere Tractor.
So I've kind of got my own Franky going in my 80!!
so I decided to get some adapters made (pics of them later) and a longer belt to make it fit.Meanwhile I pulled out the filter drier. It's located behind the left hand indicator.
Not too tricky to remove but the bolts need care when undoing as they can be pretty stiff. New O rings are going on all round, plus sealant.
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Looks like the original compressor was running without enough oil ? Exactly what happened to mine.
Brings back memories.......like don't forget the oil lol.
Mine's still running perfectly and with all Toyo parts apart from my rebuilt pump, I don't expect any problems for years.
Good luck.
Brings back memories.......like don't forget the oil lol.
Mine's still running perfectly and with all Toyo parts apart from my rebuilt pump, I don't expect any problems for years.
Good luck.
Thanks Frank. Thing is, my system has to my knowledge never been opened. Certainly in the nearly 12 years I've owned it it hasn't. So, where is all the oil? Some will have leaked out, so we've got to check for leaks, the rest is likely to be floating around in the system.
Talking to my fridge engineer mate, this could happen if the system is low on gas and doesn't bring enough oil back for the compressor. I've got no obvious leaks anywhere but we will need to check once it's back together.
The other thing I noticed was that the thick felt washer in the new compressor looked dry. I think it's there to absorb oil, and along with the rings in the centre of the pulley and clutch plate prevent any leakage at the shaft seal from contaminating the clutch plates .
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Mmmm thought you might say that. With your knowledge of A/C I thought it unlikely you would not have enough oil.
I don't know if the pumps eventually go like that even with correct amount of oil. The pistons are aluminium coated with PTFE. I suppose if the PTFE wears thin and there is ally contact with ally it could pick up.
I know it was important on older cars to run the A/C every time you went out to ensure oil was circulated. That could have been an old wives tale though. I always use my A/C though.
I thought the felt washer was to keep dust off the seal but you may be right. On the compressors I stripped to find enough good parts to build a good one the main shaft was rusted right up to the seal and beyond!! So I managed to polish the best shaft. Rightly or wrongly I oiled the felt washer to stop the shaft getting wet. BTW none of the felt rings I took off had lost oil on them.
I suppose you cannot put an airline on to blow the system through to find the oil because of the expansion valve ? I took my evaporator out to check it. It was not much of a job so I suppose you could drain all the parts if you had enough time. Trouble is is is very difficult to get oil out of the condenser as there is so much surface area.
I don't know if the pumps eventually go like that even with correct amount of oil. The pistons are aluminium coated with PTFE. I suppose if the PTFE wears thin and there is ally contact with ally it could pick up.
I know it was important on older cars to run the A/C every time you went out to ensure oil was circulated. That could have been an old wives tale though. I always use my A/C though.
I thought the felt washer was to keep dust off the seal but you may be right. On the compressors I stripped to find enough good parts to build a good one the main shaft was rusted right up to the seal and beyond!! So I managed to polish the best shaft. Rightly or wrongly I oiled the felt washer to stop the shaft getting wet. BTW none of the felt rings I took off had lost oil on them.
I suppose you cannot put an airline on to blow the system through to find the oil because of the expansion valve ? I took my evaporator out to check it. It was not much of a job so I suppose you could drain all the parts if you had enough time. Trouble is is is very difficult to get oil out of the condenser as there is so much surface area.
