How long is it worth maintaining old diesels for?

[Higgy]

I love these posts.. The missus and I often walk from Dover castle to the old light house along the cliff top. and you can look directly down at the ferry terminal. Have you seen the Shit and Bollox that comes out of those old ferries while there ticking over, getting loaded, im talking Black, thick stuff, How the F@>k can Dover Council, P&O, DFDS, And the other one, think this is acceptable. They must chuck out the equivalent of a 1000 cars worth by the time they have reached the Harbour wall... 3 ferries at a time 10 times a day. (Approx)... That's a lot of Shit and Bollox.. My Missus took pics Il up load if shes still got em....Shame on you, You committee deciding Corporate Controlled Wan@>?s......

 

[big-yin]

I don't post here too often but this business with emissions and its target on diesels alone is a sore point with me (particularly as it seems to have heated up after the vw scandal). What about modern petrols????????

Why should the poster be questioning about rebuilding an engine in a motor he likes just because of beaucracy and politics (15 years ago it was buy a diesel best thing since sliced bread).

Yes the Sprinter 2.9 5 cylinder what an engine will long outlive any modern common rail motor, dpf an all that. just need to keep the bodies on them (there's a reason they've all gone abroad).

Got a new sprinter here for injectors again this week (not another one!!), had a bluemotion golf for headache with egt sensor couple weeks back, car just used to stop on the side of the road and would refuse to restart for at least 2 hours (been to 3 places for fixing too). Had 2 or 3 lc 120s in for injectors and turbo driver trouble. Nissan for an injector which ended up coming out in three pieces!!! I really do not see any of it as progression (never mind the steel quality and corrosion issues in some of these newer motors)

I am not against progress and certainly some of the great technologies we have are as a result of progress.
Yes we do need to clean up in extremely built up areas (peoples lives are very important), but it is how it is done which gets me it all seems far too politically and financially biased.

Its very strange how people forget about the soot formation in directly injected petrol engines isn't it? (been a problem for a long time) After all petrol is a hydrocarbon (has everybody forgot about boundary wall quenching under certain combustion conditions?). Don't see these petrols with dpfs do we? ("yet")
They still produce particulates though (trouble is they are so small we cant see them and they are the ones easily absorbed into the body). What about the injectors in the TFSI engines they cant even be rebuilt successfully its new only and they don't do the miles, that's if they don't crack the piston ring lands first!!!!

L ...............

As someone who has worked in the aftermarket tuning industry for 18yrs the "modern" engines are the bane of our lives. Not many that are reliable and haven't had loads of updates on hardware & software. On release of the previous generation of TDI engines customers with £40k audis being told by a dealer to go for a drive to clear the DPF left customers confused at best. Really not good, and that is before they break.

As for Petrols - from start of September with the new emissions Euro6.2 I think its called, cars do have Gasoline Particulate Filters. Specifically the latest Ford Fiesta ST, the 1.0T Ecoboost models, and the VW UP GTi. Sorry for non LC based examples but I only work with VAG/Fords. Other models have been discontinued as they can't meet the new MPG "real" calculations so won't get government grants....

As for original post - I'd say its down to costs. If you can do it for a reasonable price I would, you can always sell it to someone that wants/needs it and doesn't have these issues.

 

[Higgy]

Going back to Robo's Original post .. If its on its 2nd or 3rd rebuild its maybe time to throw the Towel in.. But if its a first time... give it a new lease of life, There's plenty of knowledge and help on the Forum

 

[Rob-o]

Lots of very good points here, some very interesting points and experiences.

I’m not struggling to justify the cost really, I know there’s no equivalent to the mighty 80, it’s the only vehicle I’ve ever owned that I really don’t know what I’d replace it with. Having no first hand experience with maintaining modern engines I suppose has made me a little complacement, the 1hdt just works, every time, it’s a magnificent thing in my experience. I suppose it’s time to start looking into the cost of things...!

It’s really useful to hear others opinions and reasons behind them, so thanks. There’s a bloody lot of knowledge on this forum!

Rob

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

Just a conversation I was having with one of our agricultural fitters earlier. As the owner of an increasingly heavy breathing 1hdt we were discussing piston ring replacement, re-bores, sleeves, etc etc, and he said he wouldn’t want to spend the money rebuilding an engine “that they’ll tax off the road before you’ve had your money’s worth out of it”.

It’s something I’d thought about myself, is it really worth spending big money rebuilding a 250k mile engine, only to find that in 5 years time the tax is so expensive, or diesel so costly that it’s even harder to justify than it already is? (Mainly to the mrs, I like spending money on diesel)

For a little background the engine runs beautifully but is increasingly smokey, blows the oil filler nearly out of your hand if you remove it when running. This has only really come to a head since the clutch started slipping on the way back from Bosnia a couple of weeks ago, the front and rear crank seals also need doing, you know how these things snowball.

So, would you be able to justify the cost of a rebuild?

Rob

As TP said, it depends on how much you want to keep the truck as opposed to getting a newer one. If its a nice 80 you are attached to and its served you well and you want it to for the foreseeable future then I'd bite the bullet and rebuild.
This depends on a factor or two as I'm not sure if the front and rear seals can be done in situ or the engine has to come out.
The cost also depends on how much you can do yourself and the facilities you have available. Personally I think there would be so little wear in the bores that re ringing would suffice, cranks are bulletproof and should re shell. If you could I'd do the valve stem oil seals as they can go hard over time and if they've not been done the injectors overhauled.
If you have to pay full labour for the job though as well as the parts I guess that would be the crunch question.
If you did it all yourself ( and didn't re bore) it would still be a four figure sum for parts.

 

[Jacob100]

Bit of an aside (again) but I recently took a trip out to the docks in Mr T’s ‘rethink’ of the SUV, the C-HR.

If that car is a sign of things to come, then no expense should be spared in keeping old Cruisers on the road.

The only thing I remember about it is that when it woke me up to announce that we had reached Grimsby I’d done the 70 miles on well under a gallon of petrol.

 

[karl webster]

i personally carnt see why we would ever need to stop to be honest.

 

[chapel gate]

out of curiosity rob, has your 80 been mistreated as a pup? 250000 miles isn't a great mileage for these engines.

 

[AndycruiserguyLomas]

out of curiosity rob, has your 80 been mistreated as a pup? 250000 miles isn't a great mileage for these engines.

Auto engines tend to fare better than manuals I reckon.

 

[Rob-o]

out of curiosity rob, has your 80 been mistreated as a pup? 250000 miles isn't a great mileage for these engines.

Not that I’m aware of, I’ve done the last 35k miles in it, the previous owner (also a forum member) did 120k (I think he said) and he knew the original owner. I’ve got every bit of paperwork from new and engine wise it has always had and still has genuine everything. It’s had 1 clutch, 1 set of injectors and the BEB’s done. (Aside from routine maintenance obviously)

Rob

 

[moggy1968]

For as long as you can. Fuck em!!

People need to understand policy and the law are not made for environmental reasons, they are made for money and power.
The reason they don’t galvanise vehicles is because manufacturers want them to rust so you buy new ones, I’ve even heard (from a metallurgist) that they vary the composition of the metal depending on the market the vehicle is intended for.
Electric vehicles are nirvana to the manufacturers because finally they have a vehicle with built in obsolescence. That’s whats driving all the anti internal combustion shit, not actual reality or evidence, just money. The big manufacturers lobby the eu behind closed doors, and they get what they want. It doesn’t have to be logical or based on reality, it just has to make them, and the shady politicians, more money.
It’s not quite correct to say legislation isn’t being initiated retrospectively, the LEZ applies to all vehicles and the same has happened in numerous towns in Germany, and is being considered in numerous towns in the U.K.

 

[Richard Turner]

They won't need to put the tax up for older diesels, they just need to give the impression that it is on the cards, and people won't bother repairing them, and they will all disappear anyway. They won't make us give up old cars, they will just make us think we should.

They will all rust, because of the salt on the roads.

And the scrappage scheme cleared a lot of well made reliable 90's cars.

The powers to be really want us to be buying new cars all the time! But it is very wasteful really, or I think so anyway. I don't really see why a car has to be a consumable object. It doesn't make sense to me. It should be a thing you buy, and look after. Like a house I suppose.

So I think repairing an old car does make sense because you have a much more reliable and better built car that has actually a low tax cost. My 80 is £250 ish to tax I think, but a modern 4.5 petrol is much much more than that. I think people looking after older cars will be alright.

It's going to take a lot of plating up sills and engine rebuilds to cost more than buying a plastic toaster with bright headlights, Bluetooth connection and a 7 year life.

 

[Higgy]

Not that I’m aware of, I’ve done the last 35k miles in it, the previous owner (also a forum member) did 120k (I think he said) and he knew the original owner. I’ve got every bit of paperwork from new and engine wise it has always had and still has genuine everything. It’s had 1 clutch, 1 set of injectors and the BEB’s done. (Aside from routine maintenance obviously)

Rob

If its had the injectors and BEBs done , and its only done 250,000.. sounds like some new rings and an oil change should have it all sorted again.. My old Colorado had 285,000 on the clock and the engine had never been touched. And an 80 engine is a lot more robust than a Colorado.. To me it sounds like its probably not as bad as your thinking.. There are plenty of Lads on here to talk you through it.. (if you need help)...... I think there are far too many 80 series on ebay starting at 99p... Breaking. 'You are bidding for a wiper blade'.... Like Moggy says Fuck 'em'.. Keep the old gal going.. I should have never sold my old Colorado.. But at the time I thought it was time to upgrade.... BIG mistake.. Newer isn't always better.

 

[frank rabbets]

I would get the pump rebuilt if you decide on an engine rebuild. Reason being if it has been incorrectly adjusted it might be the cause of your engine wear damage? in the first place.

 

[moggy1968]

When I think of the costs of running an old motor I think of the £240 a month by brand new Hilux cost me, and the £4000 a year depreciation (mich better than most) then I think actually maybe running an old motor isn’t such a bad idea after all. I’m about to be in for some big bulls on my landcruiser, but it’s still less than a year of repayments and depreciation on that Hilux.

 

[moggy1968]

They won't need to put the tax up for older diesels, they just need to give the impression that it is on the cards, and people won't bother repairing them, and they will all disappear anyway. They won't make us give up old cars, they will just make us think we should.

They will all rust, because of the salt on the roads.

And the scrappage scheme cleared a lot of well made reliable 90's cars.

.

And older classics, one scrappy was telling me a guys widow traded in his mint Morris minor under scrappage. It was worth far more than the scrappage value and if the garage had any sense they’d have stuck it in an auction. As it was it was scrapped, I don’t think they can even use the parts from them. There was some rare and perfectly good cars scrapped.

It was criminal

 

[Chas]

And older classics, one scrappy was telling me a guys widow traded in his mint Morris minor under scrappage. It was worth far more than the scrappage value It was criminal

As a passionate Morris Minor fan that brought tears to my eyes.

 

[moggy1968]

As a passionate Morris Minor fan that brought tears to my eyes.

It’s where my pseudonym comes from, 1968 Morris minor traveller I used to own.
Made me pretty sad as well, what a waste. Why didn’t someone just offer her 1500 quid for it?

 

[Chas]

It’s where my pseudonym comes from, 1968 Morris minor traveller I used to own.
Made me pretty sad as well, what a waste. Why didn’t someone just offer her 1500 quid for it?

I did wonder about the name Moggy, I've owned five Moggies, a Traveller, a four door, a two door and two convertibles, I'm keeping my eye open for a nice updated modified one with a more modern engine and auto box.

 

[frank rabbets]

My first car was a 1954 Morris Minor traveler . Terrible 803 cc engine and the big ends used to last no time at all.