Don't like the adverts? Click here to remove them
LJ70 Build Thread!
- Thread starter Ben
- Start date
Blimey Ben 
That steering wheel wobble's insane M8 
Has it always done it it
Was it doing it when we last went out together
Didn't you recently change from your Simex type tyres to your less aggressive Muds, does it do this with both sets of tyres
It seemed to come and go in the Video, does it only happen at certain speeds, under braking, when putting down power or lifting off
That steering wheel wobble's insane M8 Has it always done it it
Was it doing it when we last went out together Didn't you recently change from your Simex type tyres to your less aggressive Muds, does it do this with both sets of tyres
It seemed to come and go in the Video, does it only happen at certain speeds, under braking, when putting down power or lifting off
Roger Fairclough
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2010
- Messages
- 1,106
From memory, mine switches on at about 94 C and switches off at 88 C.
Roger
Roger
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 6,055
- Country Flag
Steven.
it is really bad.
really not looking forward to the 1.5hour drive to north Wales tomorrow.
it has done it for a long time, but it seems to have got [strike:1l3hf9xm]worse lately[/strike:1l3hf9xm] more frequent.
it almost seems constant now, where as before it was only occasional.
i can sometimes drive a few miles without any steering wheel shakes, but then when it starts it seems to go into a bit of a spasm.
it does it with both sets of tyres, but is a little bit worse with the aggressive simex style tyres.
theres no real pattern to it either, turning one way or the other neither causes it, or stops it. like wise braking doesnt have any effect, or putting power on or off!
i fitted a new steering damper about a year ago with one from milner's. im not sure how effectively it is now working, but it was no where near as big as the standard one. looks more like a bicycle pump than a shock absorber!
steering damper is next on my list of things to buy.
i need to find out if that tough dog damper mounts in front of the axle, or in the original position behind the axle.
if it mounts in front then it would probably foul my guard, so if thats the case i will get an ironman one.
Thanks Roger.
it is really bad.
really not looking forward to the 1.5hour drive to north Wales tomorrow.
it has done it for a long time, but it seems to have got [strike:1l3hf9xm]worse lately[/strike:1l3hf9xm] more frequent.
it almost seems constant now, where as before it was only occasional.
i can sometimes drive a few miles without any steering wheel shakes, but then when it starts it seems to go into a bit of a spasm.
it does it with both sets of tyres, but is a little bit worse with the aggressive simex style tyres.
theres no real pattern to it either, turning one way or the other neither causes it, or stops it. like wise braking doesnt have any effect, or putting power on or off!
i fitted a new steering damper about a year ago with one from milner's. im not sure how effectively it is now working, but it was no where near as big as the standard one. looks more like a bicycle pump than a shock absorber!
steering damper is next on my list of things to buy.
i need to find out if that tough dog damper mounts in front of the axle, or in the original position behind the axle.
if it mounts in front then it would probably foul my guard, so if thats the case i will get an ironman one.
Thanks Roger.
- Joined
- May 20, 2010
- Messages
- 5,808
I had something similar but not as bad on my mux ben. also a touch of it on my green truck now.I have just watched your vid and my head started ticking. Never thought about it before and havnt read all of the previous posts.
I dont know what others think about this but....... Watching the vid seems like when you let off it doesnt do it as bad. Could it be the power steering pump surgeing
I havnt thought untill now that wobbles etc could be the pump but may be a idea.
Karl
I dont know what others think about this but....... Watching the vid seems like when you let off it doesnt do it as bad. Could it be the power steering pump surgeing
I havnt thought untill now that wobbles etc could be the pump but may be a idea.
Karl
Don't like the adverts? Click here to remove them
- Joined
- May 20, 2010
- Messages
- 5,808
Ive put a post up in the past about mux having a .. (DEATH WOBBLE) as id call it. Really not nice when driving. I had said many times that it felt like the wheels could come off. Could it be enough to cause your problem???? Who knows. Something just got me thinking when watchin your vid and that came into my head. When i had the prob it wasnt as bad as that.Maybe because the 80s are a heavier truck??
Like you said, the beat way to decribe it,is the wheels feel like there coming off. Maybe someone who are up on pumps will come forward and give a opinion.
Karl
Like you said, the beat way to decribe it,is the wheels feel like there coming off. Maybe someone who are up on pumps will come forward and give a opinion.
Karl
Googled 'Violent Steering Wobble' and found this that may be of interest to you http://wore.ca/smf/index.php?page=28
Turns out that this is very common and amongst modified 4x4's and is more commonly called 'Death Wobble' it would seem that it's only a process of elimination that will secure a cure.
This is a copy of an 40 series LC FSM
I found it while looking through this http://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/ ... obble.html
This is a copy of an 40 series LC FSM
I found it while looking through this http://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/ ... obble.html
Anders Ernst
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
- Messages
- 29
That doesn't look very comfortable at all. I ride some quite rough BFG M/T KM2's, and has no shaking at all. Seems incredible if only the castor can cause that much, but hopes you find a solution
Roger Fairclough
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2010
- Messages
- 1,106
I have 285/75-16 BFG KM2's on 16 x 8 steels. There is a degree of roughness caused by the heavy tyre construction, but no death wobble, or anything like it. My steering damper is the original Toyota one.
I'm going to put forward 3 points:-
1) Caster angle. We know this is incorrect and we know that this will create a vague and insensitive steering response. Fix this first.
2) I'm still not convinced about the tyres. Ben has said that with the less extreme tyres, the wobble is reduced. I suggest, again, that a check with normal tyres and rims will either confirm or eliminate the tyres as a suspect.
3) When replacing the steering knuckle bearings, it is very important that felt dust and rubber grease seal are replaced, and that the correct torque is obtained with the new bearings.
Roger
I'm going to put forward 3 points:-
1) Caster angle. We know this is incorrect and we know that this will create a vague and insensitive steering response. Fix this first.
2) I'm still not convinced about the tyres. Ben has said that with the less extreme tyres, the wobble is reduced. I suggest, again, that a check with normal tyres and rims will either confirm or eliminate the tyres as a suspect.
3) When replacing the steering knuckle bearings, it is very important that felt dust and rubber grease seal are replaced, and that the correct torque is obtained with the new bearings.
Roger
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 6,055
- Country Flag
thanks guys. 
spent 14 hours out green laning today, so got to spend plenty of time behind the wheel enduring the death wobble!
a few things have become apparent.
1. its worse at slower speeds 10mph-45mph.
2. when cornering at these slower speeds it does calm down a bit and isnt as bad.
drove home and averaged 75mph all the way. at these speeds the death wobble was a lot less noticeable and no where near as bad as at slower speeds.
speaking to one of my suzuki mates he was saying that the death wobble that jimny's suffer from is caused by the panhard rod, being twisted after the suspension lift. so this is something else i need to check.
if my panhard rod is still twisted after the castor correction bushes go on i will cut and sleave the panhard rod, and twist it around until it lines up properly.
CC bushes have come, just need to get them fitted. but i might also change all the other bushes while im at it.
for standard tyres i will have to borrow my mates standard set, because i sold the ones that came on the truck when i bought it, a few weeks ago on ebay.
regarding the bearings. the felt dust and rubber hub seals wernt replaced, as after cleaning the ones i took off they looked good as new. the bearings were all torqued up correctly.
Thanks Garry, certainly something i hadnt thought to check. i will have a look tomorrow and if i get stuck i will call you, thanks.
spent 14 hours out green laning today, so got to spend plenty of time behind the wheel enduring the death wobble!
a few things have become apparent.
1. its worse at slower speeds 10mph-45mph.
2. when cornering at these slower speeds it does calm down a bit and isnt as bad.
drove home and averaged 75mph all the way. at these speeds the death wobble was a lot less noticeable and no where near as bad as at slower speeds.
speaking to one of my suzuki mates he was saying that the death wobble that jimny's suffer from is caused by the panhard rod, being twisted after the suspension lift. so this is something else i need to check.
if my panhard rod is still twisted after the castor correction bushes go on i will cut and sleave the panhard rod, and twist it around until it lines up properly.
Roger Fairclough said:
CC bushes have come, just need to get them fitted. but i might also change all the other bushes while im at it.
for standard tyres i will have to borrow my mates standard set, because i sold the ones that came on the truck when i bought it, a few weeks ago on ebay.
regarding the bearings. the felt dust and rubber hub seals wernt replaced, as after cleaning the ones i took off they looked good as new. the bearings were all torqued up correctly.
Garry said:
Thanks Garry, certainly something i hadnt thought to check. i will have a look tomorrow and if i get stuck i will call you, thanks.
Sam
Well-Known Member
Everything about that video was [strike:210ph4d4]wrong[/strike:210ph4d4] dangerous!
My first thought was put the bloody camera down and pull over!
That said, I had a very similar thing in a 21 year old VW camper many years ago. I didn't pull over either. In fact I bought a ferry ticket and did 1500 in Spain instead to see if it went. It didn't
But seriously Ben, hundred mile long trips with symptoms you would often see just before overtaking one of your front wheels can't be good. At 70+ mph ????? .... am I being a girl or anyone else think we should take his keys until fixed?
My first thought was put the bloody camera down and pull over!
That said, I had a very similar thing in a 21 year old VW camper many years ago. I didn't pull over either. In fact I bought a ferry ticket and did 1500 in Spain instead to see if it went. It didn't
But seriously Ben, hundred mile long trips with symptoms you would often see just before overtaking one of your front wheels can't be good. At 70+ mph ????? .... am I being a girl or anyone else think we should take his keys until fixed?
Roger Fairclough
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2010
- Messages
- 1,106
Sam said:Everything about that video was [strike:2o2eb08j]wrong[/strike:2o2eb08j] dangerous!
My first thought was put the bloody camera down and pull over!
That said, I had a very similar thing in a 21 year old VW camper many years ago. I didn't pull over either. In fact I bought a ferry ticket and did 1500 in Spain instead to see if it went. It didn't
But seriously Ben, hundred mile long trips with symptoms you would often see just before overtaking one of your front wheels can't be good. At 70+ mph ????? .... am I being a girl or anyone else think we should take his keys until fixed?
Sorry Ben, buts Sams right. You need to fix it before you do those sort of speeds.
Roger
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 6,055
- Country Flag
your right guys i know. 
it had been a long day we hit very bad traffic in north wales on the way back, and so had ben driving for 12 hours.
one of the guys got a puncture so after changing that my hands were covered in oil.
so i was covered in oil, very hungry, tired, it was getting dark and i just wanted to get home. hence thrashing the truck the entire way back and over taking 30+ vehicles on the way back.
it was foolish and could have ended very badly, but i was lucky this time.
heres yesterdays trip report.
http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/-39-la ... g_172.html
ive got a load of pics to post up, but havnt got time ATM, going to be working 16+ hour days all this week.
just in middle of fitting castor correction bushes, after fixing my rad thats been leaking.
need to get the truck done by tomorrow night, as im off to Liverpool in it, working away for a few days.
it had been a long day we hit very bad traffic in north wales on the way back, and so had ben driving for 12 hours.
one of the guys got a puncture so after changing that my hands were covered in oil.
so i was covered in oil, very hungry, tired, it was getting dark and i just wanted to get home. hence thrashing the truck the entire way back and over taking 30+ vehicles on the way back.
it was foolish and could have ended very badly, but i was lucky this time.
heres yesterdays trip report.
http://www.bits4vits.co.uk/store/-39-la ... g_172.html
ive got a load of pics to post up, but havnt got time ATM, going to be working 16+ hour days all this week.
just in middle of fitting castor correction bushes, after fixing my rad thats been leaking.
need to get the truck done by tomorrow night, as im off to Liverpool in it, working away for a few days.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 6,055
- Country Flag
update time!
took my spare pair of radius arms to the local friendly garage ive found with the big hydraulic press, and asked them to press out the old bushes where the castor correction bushes would be going!
unfortunately even 15 tonnes of pressure couldnt push the 20 year old bushes out!
so they pushed out the rubbers for me, just leaving the outer metal piece left.
so i used a hacksaw to cut a slit in the metal bush ring.
and then used a chisel to knock the metal ring out.
did the same on the other arm, so all the old bushes were now completely removed.
this box arrived the other day, from Andrew. thanks mate.
went on the ironman 4x4 .com.au website and found the fitting instructions for the castor correction bushes.
put some plumb marks on the old arms before removing them, as per the instructions.
found the woodwork vice worked well for pressing the bushes in.
one done.
comparing what difference the bushes have made on the position of the arm.
other arm done!
anyone spot the glaringly obvious mistake here??
it was 10pm by this time and i was very tired. so i didnt spot the mistake. spent 20 mins hammering, levering and bashing the arm back in place, and then realised my mistake!
the arms were a bastard to get back on, as the new bushes are a tight fit into the brackets on the axle. so the crow bar, trolley jack and sledge hammer all played a part in getting the arms fitted.
when i eventually got the arms bolted to the axle, i found the axle was 2"s too far forward. so used a ratchet strap to pull the axle back to where i wanted it.
all done, or so i thought.
noticed the oil seal needs changing on the axle.
so by this time it was 11pm so time for a shower and bed.
jumped in and drove to work this morning. got to the end of the road pulled out on to a busy A road and realised id got no left lock on my steering!
had to reverse and take another shunt on the tiny bit of lock i had got, to be able to turn left at the junction.
got to work and a little investigation revealed that the clamps on the rear steering bar had been fouling the arms, so i had to undo them and turn them around so they wouldnt foul.
oh and it drove like a pig all the way to work. the death wobble was probably worse than ever!
while at work i remembered that last night, i forgot to bounce the suspension/axle up and down a few times before tightening all the bolts on the arms.
so i undid them all and drove it slowly over some bumpy terrain, before stopping on level ground and re-tightening all the bolts.
i definitely noticed an improvement on the drive home. the steering wheel self centres after turning, beautifully, and the death wobble is definitely improved but still present.
broke a wing mirror on sundays laning trip.
only one i could find in my shed was a chrome LJ78 one. will do until i get another black one.
decided to fit my other set of wheels, and while fitting them i had a look to see how well centred they were. i found that they were definitely not centring correctly.
used some feeler gauges to work out how much out it was, and adjusted the wheel to suit.
maybe this will have improved things slightly.
both front wheels are now almost perfectly centred on the hub.
difficult to see in the pics, but there is a very slight gap between the aftermarket wheel and hub.
will be interesting to see what the d wobble is like on these wheels/tyres.
i then gave the truck a wash.
took my spare pair of radius arms to the local friendly garage ive found with the big hydraulic press, and asked them to press out the old bushes where the castor correction bushes would be going!
unfortunately even 15 tonnes of pressure couldnt push the 20 year old bushes out!
so they pushed out the rubbers for me, just leaving the outer metal piece left.
so i used a hacksaw to cut a slit in the metal bush ring.
and then used a chisel to knock the metal ring out.
did the same on the other arm, so all the old bushes were now completely removed.
this box arrived the other day, from Andrew. thanks mate.
went on the ironman 4x4 .com.au website and found the fitting instructions for the castor correction bushes.
put some plumb marks on the old arms before removing them, as per the instructions.
found the woodwork vice worked well for pressing the bushes in.
one done.
comparing what difference the bushes have made on the position of the arm.
other arm done!
anyone spot the glaringly obvious mistake here??
it was 10pm by this time and i was very tired. so i didnt spot the mistake. spent 20 mins hammering, levering and bashing the arm back in place, and then realised my mistake!
the arms were a bastard to get back on, as the new bushes are a tight fit into the brackets on the axle. so the crow bar, trolley jack and sledge hammer all played a part in getting the arms fitted.
when i eventually got the arms bolted to the axle, i found the axle was 2"s too far forward. so used a ratchet strap to pull the axle back to where i wanted it.
all done, or so i thought.
noticed the oil seal needs changing on the axle.
so by this time it was 11pm so time for a shower and bed.
jumped in and drove to work this morning. got to the end of the road pulled out on to a busy A road and realised id got no left lock on my steering!
had to reverse and take another shunt on the tiny bit of lock i had got, to be able to turn left at the junction.
got to work and a little investigation revealed that the clamps on the rear steering bar had been fouling the arms, so i had to undo them and turn them around so they wouldnt foul.
oh and it drove like a pig all the way to work. the death wobble was probably worse than ever!
while at work i remembered that last night, i forgot to bounce the suspension/axle up and down a few times before tightening all the bolts on the arms.
so i undid them all and drove it slowly over some bumpy terrain, before stopping on level ground and re-tightening all the bolts.
i definitely noticed an improvement on the drive home. the steering wheel self centres after turning, beautifully, and the death wobble is definitely improved but still present.
broke a wing mirror on sundays laning trip.
only one i could find in my shed was a chrome LJ78 one. will do until i get another black one.
decided to fit my other set of wheels, and while fitting them i had a look to see how well centred they were. i found that they were definitely not centring correctly.
used some feeler gauges to work out how much out it was, and adjusted the wheel to suit.
maybe this will have improved things slightly.
both front wheels are now almost perfectly centred on the hub.
difficult to see in the pics, but there is a very slight gap between the aftermarket wheel and hub.
will be interesting to see what the d wobble is like on these wheels/tyres.
i then gave the truck a wash.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 6,055
- Country Flag
i only checked and centred the front wheels, and already ive noticed a huge improvement on the death wobble. its almost vanished completely!
thanks Garry, i hadnt thought of it until you suggested it.
going to do the back wheels tonight before i set off for Liverpool.
i wondered if i could buy, or get made some inserts to fit between the hub and wheel centre?
would only need to be a few mm thick. maybe if i can find some tube with the correct internal and external measurements, and then cut off 4 x 10mm pieces of it.
thanks Garry, i hadnt thought of it until you suggested it.
going to do the back wheels tonight before i set off for Liverpool.
i wondered if i could buy, or get made some inserts to fit between the hub and wheel centre?
would only need to be a few mm thick. maybe if i can find some tube with the correct internal and external measurements, and then cut off 4 x 10mm pieces of it.
AndyCook
Well-Known Member
how come the wheel nuts do not centre the wheel on the hub? are the flat faced or bevelled?
great news that centreing them has helped to remove the wobble
when they were balanced were they setup "hub centric" as well?
great news that centreing them has helped to remove the wobble
when they were balanced were they setup "hub centric" as well?
