Need Help! Challenges in increasing the torque/power in a 2004 1HDFTE

[CruiserMania]

Hi,
I writing this down because I want to share my experience on tuning this engine and also cause I am out of ideeas.
The car is the one from signature: TLC HDJ 100, 2004, 1HDFTE, Automatic 5 speed, european version, EURO3, MAF sensor present and VNT Garret Turbocharger.

I really like the car but using it as a daily driven car I found out that is needed more torque and power to keep up with the actual needs. Towing a car platform for my offroad-buggy or a caravan is also in my future plan.

First I removed the EGR and cleaned the intake pipes.

 

[CruiserMania]

After I studied a lot the aftermarket turbochargers fabricators for this model and I decided to have something from www.gturbo.com.au, a very reputable australian turbochargers producer.
I agree with them that they can upgrade my turbocharger to one of their model (BadBoy, wich is something like a stage 2, good for up to 30 psi).
My target was to change all intake pipes and upgrade the intercooler with a www.performancedieselintercoolers.com.au/intercoolers/ kit wich by the way is a fantastic setup as I will demonstrate later with maeasurments, to upgrade the exhaust to a straight-throu 3'', and upgrade the turbocharger to a high-flow and good for 20-24 psi and of course to use an piggyback for increasing the fuel delivery.
All went well as you can see in the pictures:

 

[CruiserMania]

All went pretty well with hardware....not straight forward but okish. For anywone that want to do something similar I can advice....just ask.

The VERY HARD PART came when we took the car on dyno to adjust fuel delivery.

First I used a module from DTE but tuned by Gturbo...succes was only after 2000 rpm but the delivery power was abrupt and uncontrolable.

We decided to go with Unchip Q+ version wich is more complex device and controls fuel delivery by adjusting opening time of the injector.
Also Unichip alowed to control MAF sensor, sensor wich gave me a lot of sleepless nights.

Ideea now is that below 2000 rpm I can not increase the fuel delivery. I know that the answer is there...between sensors and IP model wich seems to be very different in the 2004 model....but I do not understand in wich manner. If any of you have some experience tuning or working with these systems please share your ideeas.

 

[CruiserMania]

Nobody has any info that might help me understand how the Injection Pump is managed by ECU on this LC model?

 

[silvercruiser]

Thanks for the write up, sorry i cant help. I know when i wanted to tune my 120 d4d series i pretty much hit a brick wall when i wanted to tune it. all i could get was a tuning box that you have already tried. Its one of the reasons i sold it in the end.

 

[RadioBaobab]

Cannot really help you. But most 100 series I know that have performance upgrades seem to be running the Adonis box, you might want to check these out. http://www.adonistechnology.com/

 

[Grimbo]

Problem with the 100 series engine as far as tuning goes is it's a hybrid between a mechanical injection and early electronic pump control , not a common rail engine . You will be limited to what you can achieve as the electronic side is very simple (read not very clever ) and the injectors are simple dual stage mechanical units not electronic like on common rail .
At best you can fool it to over fuel a bit , it's not like you have 5 injection pulses to play with and can alter timing and injection pressure as you can with more modern systems .

 

[CruiserMania]

Cannot really help you. But most 100 series I know that have performance upgrades seem to be running the Adonis box, you might want to check these out. http://www.adonistechnology.com/

I wrote email to Adonis, I hope they answer after they come back from Dakar.
Ideea is that I need a device that offers me tuning (adjusting) capacity.

 

[CruiserMania]

Problem with the 100 series engine as far as tuning goes is it's a hybrid between a mechanical injection and early electronic pump control , not a common rail engine . You will be limited to what you can achieve as the electronic side is very simple (read not very clever ) and the injectors are simple dual stage mechanical units not electronic like on common rail .
At best you can fool it to over fuel a bit , it's not like you have 5 injection pulses to play with and can alter timing and injection pressure as you can with more modern systems .

Agree with you on one side but on the other side this sistem is very reliable and in standard form (only injector upgrades) there are some nice results with over or close to 1000Nm and over 350 whp. Very easy to have 750 Nm and 300 whp.
Unichip Q+ installed in my car controls fuel by controling the spill valve , controls timing, it takes information from MAP and throttle position sensor. I understand that is archaic compared to new generation commonrail diesel sistem....but it is smart enough to have something that blocks the extrafueling below 2000 rpm.
It could be spill valve but I do not know how to test it properly or it could be some code written in the ECU that works like a torque limiter, all in the name of emission (car is Euro 3).

 

[Shayne]

I don't know your engine but i retro fitted an intercooler to my 1KZ-TE which has an electronic fuel pump , it ran well with no complaints following the addition so i was very surprised at the improvement when i moved the temperature and pressure sensors from the intake to the intercooler , so it might be worth looking to see if this is possible on your truck .

 

[CruiserMania]

I don't know your engine but i retro fitted an intercooler to my 1KZ-TE which has an electronic fuel pump , it ran well with no complaints following the addition so i was very surprised at the improvement when i moved the temperature and pressure sensors from the intake to the intercooler , so it might be worth looking to see if this is possible on your truck .

I have upgraded the turbocharger also (intercooler, exhaust, intake pipes) and my complain is that whithout a serious increase in fuel , the engine is running very lean.
I monitor intake temp as well and I have 5-7 * C above ambient.

 

[Shayne]

I was in that same place with my truck everything worked but i just knew it wasn't giving me what it could .

I have a 3" exhaust , intercooler , fuel upped a little , K&N air filter , boost controller , egr blanked and believe i wrote somewhere on the forum something like Hallelujah moving the sensors has at last tied all the mods together .

I have no way to test power so its all been done by feel and instinct but i'm happy to claim it feels like a different engine .

 

[Grimbo]

Agree with you on one side but on the other side this sistem is very reliable and in standard form (only injector upgrades) there are some nice results with over or close to 1000Nm and over 350 whp. Very easy to have 750 Nm and 300 whp.
Unichip Q+ installed in my car controls fuel by controling the spill valve , controls timing, it takes information from MAP and throttle position sensor. I understand that is archaic compared to new generation commonrail diesel sistem....but it is smart enough to have something that blocks the extrafueling below 2000 rpm.
It could be spill valve but I do not know how to test it properly or it could be some code written in the ECU that works like a torque limiter, all in the name of emission (car is Euro 3).

If you can get 750 - 1000 Nm Torque and 350 Hp then I would be very happy and stick at that .
1000Nm is going to start ripping things apart .....you are correct in assuming there is probably something controlling the torque below 2000rpm , no doubt to ensure gearbox longevity .....we use similar on high HP Ag stuff with full power and torque often limited by several parameters as otherwise it will simply twist the trans apart ......again we are using Common Rail and either Full Powershift or Vario gearboxes but still have to limit Torque and HP at lower revs and gear ratios , if you get 375 hp and 1200Nm then for sure you will find the weakest link in the power train , fix that and the next bit will break , eventually you will need more power due to the increased weight and parasitic power loss and the process starts again.....good luck sounds fun

 

[Ian Chuter]

Sorry for the thread jack, but where and who do you work Grimbo? (If you don’t mind me asking). You sound like your in an ag dealership?

 

[Grimbo]

Sorry for the thread jack, but where and who do you work Grimbo? (If you don’t mind me asking). You sound like your in an ag dealership?

Now self employed .....Ex CNH , so yes Ag based , south of england

 

[CruiserMania]

If you can get 750 - 1000 Nm Torque and 350 Hp then I would be very happy and stick at that .
1000Nm is going to start ripping things apart .....you are correct in assuming there is probably something controlling the torque below 2000rpm , no doubt to ensure gearbox longevity .....we use similar on high HP Ag stuff with full power and torque often limited by several parameters as otherwise it will simply twist the trans apart ......again we are using Common Rail and either Full Powershift or Vario gearboxes but still have to limit Torque and HP at lower revs and gear ratios , if you get 375 hp and 1200Nm then for sure you will find the weakest link in the power train , fix that and the next bit will break , eventually you will need more power due to the increased weight and parasitic power loss and the process starts again.....good luck sounds fun

Those figures are just an example of what this engine in standard form can provide.
Those figures are not for me! 5 speed trans auto on my car can barrely suport 600-650 Nm. I will not exceed this figures. But what I want is to have the max torque starting with 1600-1700 rpm, you now how this cars are driven as shoping carts: almost never exceeds 2500 rpm.
Please do not understand me wrong with those figures...is just an example, obtained in Oz, where HDJ100 never had MAF, and for this figures DTE modules has been used, but of course, tuned locally on dyno.
I am having a dialogue now with Graeme from GTurbo to assist me outsourcing an ECU from OZ. Because I can not found any other reason for my setup not work any other than some software limit in the ECU that Unichip can not overwrite.
This is the reason why I post my story here....to start a dialogue with people that might know something for sure about european version post 2004 of 1hdfte.

 

[CruiserMania]

New goodies, VNT control box for best control of variable vanes. The box has MAF recalibration function also.....will see what changes can be done.

 

[Agust Thor]

I was in that same place with my truck everything worked but i just knew it wasn't giving me what it could .

I have a 3" exhaust , intercooler , fuel upped a little , K&N air filter , boost controller , egr blanked and believe i wrote somewhere on the forum something like Hallelujah moving the sensors has at last tied all the mods together .

I have no way to test power so its all been done by feel and instinct but i'm happy to claim it feels like a different engine .

Hi, could you explain in further details what you mean by, "moving the sensors" means. What sensors and from where to where. Is your truck LC100 with and Variable turbine ?

 

[Shayne]

Hi Agust , no i was talking about my 4 cylinder 1KZ-TE which has an electric fuel pump and so the sensors on the intake pressure/temperature tell the ecu whats going on and that in turn tells the pump how much fuel to inject .

A variable turbo makes things much more complicated but i figured the op obviously knows what he's doing and so he might make use of the same principal which is to move the sensors responsible for fuel injection into the intercooler .

Toyota did this when they factory fitted intercoolers to some 1KZ-TE .

 

[uHu]

New goodies, VNT control box for best control of variable vanes. The box has MAF recalibration function also.....will see what changes can be done.

Yes?