The people have spoken

[Higgy]

So much of this rings true, but not for the leave argument in my book. Yes Colonialism was the foundation for British ‘might’ but that’s proof that the UK needs alliances with others. They can’t be enforced takeovers like before so it should be trade based. It hits a chord here as the entire area of farmland within 15km of my house was Oak forest felled for Royal Navy shipbuilding under British occupation. (Search Coolattin Oak on the Googlemanatrix)

What you can blame is Britain’s lack of competitiveness during the Trade Union ruled 1980s and cost cutting within the motor industry there amongst others. That’s not the fault of the E.U. Cheaper coal imports from Eastern Europe helped the demise of the steel industry, but none of those were EU members until 2004.

I don’t live in the UK, never have, but I have family there, and they are worried. One of them worked in the Home Office for 20 years so they are not easily led by propaganda

I was a big part of the mining Industry in the late 70s and well into the 80s and as a young lad even i could see what was coming, I use to attend the Triple alliance meetings in Sheffield and could see the influence Scargill and the Unions had on the workers. We were always poised for the next Strike action, And to be fair most of us were pretty sick of it... Think of me what you will but i was a Scab and worked through the dreadful times of the Miners strikes... If you had half a brain you could see what was going to happen once Thatcher started stock piling cheap Polish Coal. The knock on affect finished our Major Heavy Industries... Any way I had a Triumph Bonnie motor Bike, a Triumph Spitfire sports car and 4 girlfriends... I wasnt giving them up Just because Mr Scargill got pissed at the Crucible Theater in Sheffield One night... Its off Topic from Brexit i know, But they were bad times for all Workers and Strikers alike i lost some good friends to those Tough Times.. To be honest i think Work is a piece of piss nowadays, When was the last time you had all the windows smashed on Your bus, Then were dragged off it and given a good kicking, While just trying to get to work?

 

[Bob]

I don't think it's off topic Higgy, as there's blurred lines in some quarters between the internal and external factors on the demise of Britain's once triumphant industries. I didn't want to bring up Scargill!

 

[Higgy]

I don't think it's off topic Higgy, as there's blurred lines in some quarters between the internal and external factors on the demise of Britain's once triumphant industries. I didn't want to bring up Scargill!

I think thats what i was trying to say... Yes i may regret mentioning Scargill

 

[Deleted member 13129]

So much of this rings true, but not for the leave argument in my book. Yes Colonialism was the foundation for British ‘might’ but that’s proof that the UK needs alliances with others. They can’t be enforced takeovers like before so it should be trade based. It hits a chord here as the entire area of farmland within 15km of my house was Oak forest felled for Royal Navy shipbuilding under British occupation. (Search Coolattin Oak on the Googlemanatrix)

What you can blame is Britain’s lack of competitiveness during the Trade Union ruled 1980s and cost cutting within the motor industry there amongst others. That’s not the fault of the E.U. Cheaper coal imports from Eastern Europe helped the demise of the steel industry, but none of those were EU members until 2004.

I don’t live in the UK, never have, but I have family there, and they are worried. One of them worked in the Home Office for 20 years so they are not easily led by propaganda

If I remember rightly some years ago Ireland had a referendum to leave or stay in the EU , and they voted leave and around a year later they had another vote which during that time they had time to think carefully about it , they thought about it and voted to stay .

 

[moggy1968]

So much of this rings true, but not for the leave argument in my book. Yes Colonialism was the foundation for British ‘might’ but that’s proof that the UK needs alliances with others. They can’t be enforced takeovers like before so it should be trade based. It hits a chord here as the entire area of farmland within 15km of my house was Oak forest felled for Royal Navy shipbuilding under British occupation. (Search Coolattin Oak on the Googlemanatrix)

What you can blame is Britain’s lack of competitiveness during the Trade Union ruled 1980s and cost cutting within the motor industry there amongst others. That’s not the fault of the E.U. Cheaper coal imports from Eastern Europe helped the demise of the steel industry, but none of those were EU members until 2004.

I don’t live in the UK, never have, but I have family there, and they are worried. One of them worked in the Home Office for 20 years so they are not easily led by propaganda

Tis very true, although the real rot in British industry was in the 1970s, although the inevitable consequences didn’t come home to roost until the early 80s. I lived in a Yorkshire pit town near sheffield at the time so was all too well aware of the destruction that caused. British steel was and still is far superior to most others. I remember once being told by a rail worker they could tell which rails were made in the U.K. and which overseas, the overseas ones just didn’t last as well.

I’m not in favour of pulling up the drawbridge. I think freedom of trade and freedom of movement (with some caveats), are a wonderful thing but the eu is about so much more than that.

It’s worth noting among all this that brexit has cost me thousands in lost earnings and had a negative effect on my pension savings. All that I knew would happen, but I didn’t vote the way I did for my benefit. I did what I thought would be in the best interests of my children’s long term future.

 

[Bob]

Sorry Tony, that was not a leave vote. I fact it was nothing of the sort. The Lisbon treaty referendum was held twice here. That was about adopting the European constitution.. it failed the fist time over concerns about things like Atomic energy and wording that didn't sit well with Irish voters. This was partly the fault of how it was presented to the people.. it was passed by huge majority once the wording was altered with exception for Ireland about atomic energy and so on..

The earlier Nice Treaty was run twice too, because Irish voters didn't want our policy of neutrality weakened. The EU amended the wording and it passed.. democracy in action

We we're never doing an 'exit poll' But it shows you can ask the people again once new information comes to light...

 

[Deleted member 13129]

Sorry Tony, that was not a leave vote. I fact it was nothing of the sort. The Lisbon treaty referendum was held twice here. That was about adopting the European constitution.. it failed the fist time over concerns about things like Atomic energy and wording that didn't sit well with Irish voters. This was partly the fault of how it was presented to the people.. it was passed by huge majority once the wording was altered with exception for Ireland about atomic energy and so on.. We we're never doing an 'exit poll'

Oh I see I remember it had something to do with the EU , sorry for the mistake .

 

[Bob]

Oh I see I remember it had something to do with the EU , sorry for the mistake .

No apologies necessary.. I'm enjoying the hearty debate

 

[froggy Steve]

Here is a link to what the EU has spent in your post code.
https://www.myeu.uk

 

[moggy1968]

Here is a link to what the EU has spent in your post code.
https://www.myeu.uk

The reality still remains though that we give more money to the eu than is received in grants like this sonits a rather misleading argument.

 

[Deleted member 13129]

The reality still remains though that we give more money to the eu than is received in grants like this sonits a rather misleading argument.

But the UK makes more money out of the EU in grants and trade deals than it pays in , so it's more gain than pay out .

 

[froggy Steve]

Would your government spend the same? I don't think so.

 

[moggy1968]

But the UK makes more money out of the EU in grants and trade deals than it pays in , so it's more gain than pay out .

not in grants it doesn't. The trade thing is unprovable because we don't know how much trade we would do if we were outside the EU and how much is down to being in the EU. You could equally argue being in the EU costs us trade with other countries.
It's rather muddying the waters to be using the two entirely different things in the same sentence

 

[moggy1968]

Would your government spend the same? I don't think so.

we don't know do we, that's just unproven supposition, like a lot of the statements made by both sides

 

[Shayne]

Wow i blinked and things got lively here

I did what I thought would be in the best interests of my children’s long term future.

Me to mate me to .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok trying to bring things back on track , what are we all arguing about - something we know which is not better than 50/50 a good/bad thing in the opinion of over 500 million people . Or something we do not know .

The world will not stop turning because we quit EU membership , it won't stop turning if the EU ceases to exist . People want change and the EU cannot change because its not a democracy , not a country , not a federal state , its a marketing tool and nothing more . A tool that increasingly can dictate what you spend your disposable income on .

Might have been 2 years ago i said on the forum - soon it will be law that our own cars will report us for speeding and fines will be issued automatically , probably deducted direct from bank accounts with no form of appeal and no human input . I think i read last week that from 2022 all new cars in the EU must include GPS tracking which will automatically apply brakes if the speed limit is exceeded .

Oh and how many people have you heard in your lifetime complain about tyre noise in general ? for me non never , so who gave them a charter to downgrade speed ratings on the tyres we want ? bollocks it was done for profit and no other reason .

Yes Britain is dead everything has been sold to make a quick buck and no government has a vested interest in our future so it doesn't matter , to them .

The EU gets what it wants and national governments get the blame , when democracy threatens national governments the EU goes into coercive overdrive using slander , blackmail , propaganda whatever it takes to deny democratic input . Even as far as planting their own choice in the leadership contest , Macron didn't just wake one morning and decide he's going to be President of France , but he was an obvious choice for the EU because he hates French people it would seem .

The EU has systematically erased social cohesion , history has shown time and again the centralization of wealth does not work .

Under all possible scenarios trade will continue and its ludicrous to think it won't , if they want to sell cars here then ok so long as we can built and sell American cars to you . In fact as an independent nation we could adopt every single EU law and policy and nothing would need to change only we would not pay into the project and receive nothing out of it by way of grants and investment .

With self determination and access to the nations full budget , the right government will be guided by democracy to invest where its needed in order to rebuild the the foundations on top of which everything else is built .

I voted out because all kids deserve a chance at a prosperous future and not just those with wealthy parents .

 

[Chas]

Wow i blinked and things got lively here



Me to mate me to .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok trying to bring things back on track , what are we all arguing about - something we know which is not better than 50/50 a good/bad thing in the opinion of over 500 million people . Or something we do not know .

The world will not stop turning because we quit EU membership , it won't stop turning if the EU ceases to exist . People want change and the EU cannot change because its not a democracy , not a country , not a federal state , its a marketing tool and nothing more . A tool that increasingly can dictate what you spend your disposable income on .

Might have been 2 years ago i said on the forum - soon it will be law that our own cars will report us for speeding and fines will be issued automatically , probably deducted direct from bank accounts with no form of appeal and no human input . I think i read last week that from 2022 all new cars in the EU must include GPS tracking which will automatically apply brakes if the speed limit is exceeded .

Oh and how many people have you heard in your lifetime complain about tyre noise in general ? for me non never , so who gave them a charter to downgrade speed ratings on the tyres we want ? bollocks it was done for profit and no other reason .

Yes Britain is dead everything has been sold to make a quick buck and no government has a vested interest in our future so it doesn't matter , to them .

The EU gets what it wants and national governments get the blame , when democracy threatens national governments the EU goes into coercive overdrive using slander , blackmail , propaganda whatever it takes to deny democratic input . Even as far as planting their own choice in the leadership contest , Macron didn't just wake one morning and decide he's going to be President of France , but he was an obvious choice for the EU because he hates French people it would seem .

The EU has systematically erased social cohesion , history has shown time and again the centralization of wealth does not work .

Under all possible scenarios trade will continue and its ludicrous to think it won't , if they want to sell cars here then ok so long as we can built and sell American cars to you . In fact as an independent nation we could adopt every single EU law and policy and nothing would need to change only we would not pay into the project and receive nothing out of it by way of grants and investment .

With self determination and access to the nations full budget , the right government will be guided by democracy to invest where its needed in order to rebuild the the foundations on top of which everything else is built .

I voted out because all kids deserve a chance at a prosperous future and not just those with wealthy parents .

Well said Shayne.

 

[moggy1968]

Wow i blinked and things got lively here



Me to mate me to .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Might have been 2 years ago i said on the forum - soon it will be law that our own cars will report us for speeding and fines will be issued automatically , probably deducted direct from bank accounts with no form of appeal and no human input . I think i read last week that from 2022 all new cars in the EU must include GPS tracking which will automatically apply brakes if the speed limit is exceeded .

.

I can see many situations where controlling speed that way would just be downright dangerous.

 

[moggy1968]

Time to inject a little humour

 

[chapel gate]

So much made up bullshit on this thread

Ahh, but which bits are made up KB?..

 

[chapel gate]

Oh dear, the race card has been played again...