The people have spoken

[Deleted member 13129]

That has absolutely nothing to do with the EU, and is wrong anyway.
Just remind me again of Cyprus’ recent history? And Ireland’s?

As in a bail out do you mean , Yes thank god both Cyprus and Ireland are members that they got the EU to bail them out , both nations are back on their feet and doing very well all thanks to the EU ,

 

[Shayne]

As for the border, the UK doesn't know what it wants.. so far as I've read, the govt. want no border, but no common market, but customs has to be dealt with, but then we can't deal with N.I differently, but then ... And so it goes. We certainly don't want any border.

The EU doesn't have any other borders so they have demanded the UK provide a solution .

There's something wrong with that statement answers on a postcard please

 

[flint]

Then he said what I’ve never forgotten and what has come back to haunt us, ‘he told us he would make Germany great again’

 

[Bob]

If Portugal left the E.U, they would have to either sign up separately to Shengen, or impose a border. Same goes for the U.K. However with the U.K there is the unique position of having one island, and a bit of another, and can't decide what way they want to sort it. Mainland U.K is easy.. border is already there. N.I is a complex and delicate situation. Not just because of the Good Friday agreement, but the common travel area between GB and IRL, which predates E.U membership by almost 25 years.

 

[Shayne]

Because the EU insists upon a hard border they demand a solution they will never accept .

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1068/d1909

Dictators .

 

[Bob]

Shayne, the hard border was only ever a possibility in a no-deal scenario, and the E.U have made it clear repeatedly that this cannot be allowed to happen.. nobody wants it.. but as the UK is the one deciding to leave, it's up to the UK to propose a viable solution. That was done but the Commons and DUP in particular couldn't endorse it. I'm sorry but the EU did not create every issue

 

[moggy1968]

Shayne, the hard border was only ever a possibility in a no-deal scenario, and the E.U have made it clear repeatedly that this cannot be allowed to happen.. nobody wants it.. but as the UK is the one deciding to leave, it's up to the UK to propose a viable solution. That was done but the Commons and DUP in particular couldn't endorse it. I'm sorry but the EU did not create every issue

It doesn’t help though that the eu rejects every proposal out of hand without offering any alternatives. They are trying to force us into a corner, blackmail in effect.

 

[moggy1968]

View attachment 155251

And trump

 

[Bob]

It doesn’t help though that the eu rejects every proposal out of hand without offering any alternatives. They are trying to force us into a corner, blackmail in effect.

The E.U didn't want the UK to leave, they have left the door open for the decision to be changed. But in negotiations, the E.U will of course put it's own interests first, just as the UK does. So some proposals were bound to be rejected.

But the E.U agreed a deal, one that was a compromise no doubt, and probably not what the UK really wants. Subsequently, every vote in the Commons on that deal, and any alternatives have been dismissed by MPs. And now May has had to look for another extension. Neither side is perfect, but blaming the entire thing on the E.U is to ignore the reality of the bizarre goings on in Westminster

 

[Shayne]

Who insists on a hard border ?

 

[Bob]

Who insists on a hard border ?

Nobody.. but it would technically be a real possibility in a no deal Brexit. That is if the UK goes to WTO rules, and also full passport control is required due to non Shengen position and also no longer E.U. It is not, nor was never likley, but would be such a volatile imposition for people on both sides that it had to be avoided. Hence the backstop.

On another note, the lively debate has been enjoyable. Unlike crap I've seen in other places, it has been respectful and generally intelligent. It would be a right job to be discussing (arguing!) it over a pint with ye!

 

[Shayne]

It would be a right job to be discussing (arguing!) it over a pint with ye!

Hows about we meet up in the Hotel California

 

[Bob]

Hows about we meet up in the Hotel California

I hear it's a lovely place....

But like the E.U, you can never leave

 

[Shayne]

Aye leave and people will die , that's the benevolent EU's negotiating position .

 

[flint]

And trump

Same friends (and paymasters?).

Totally off topic (apologies), but your memories of the German gentleman coincided with me just having read a book called Blitzed. It covers the use of drugs by the German forces and civilians and indeed Hitler during and before WW2, helps explain quite a bit. There's an article here in much the same vein (possibly not the right word).
http://www.spiegel.de/international/the-nazi-death-machine-hitler-s-drugged-soldiers-a-354606.html

 

[frank rabbets]

True that Ireland was not mentioned till well in to this thread but in a way it caused it to start. Ireland was in the debate even before the referendum.

Blackmail is not involved. Our PM agreed a deal and now she is trying to go back on it. Maybe not her fault but if the EU say they do not want to renegotiate that is OK.

 

[moggy1968]

The E.U didn't want the UK to leave, they have left the door open for the decision to be changed. But in negotiations, the E.U will of course put it's own interests first, just as the UK does. So some proposals were bound to be rejected.

But the E.U agreed a deal, one that was a compromise no doubt, and probably not what the UK really wants. Subsequently, every vote in the Commons on that deal, and any alternatives have been dismissed by MPs. And now May has had to look for another extension. Neither side is perfect, but blaming the entire thing on the E.U is to ignore the reality of the bizarre goings on in Westminster

I certainly don’t blame the eu entirely. May has made a complete Horlicks of the job, and now she is a laughing stock. Her latest actions. Look like those of someone who is totally out of ideas, out of their depth and desperately running around in circles trying to find the door.
If you watch that video I posted earlier it makes some very valid points about how the eu is actually pissing in its own breakfast cereal with its current hard line stance. The extreme comments of some of the EU’s senior politicians hasn’t done them many favours either. Their stance is actually damaging to the EU.
It’s not a case of ‘some Proposals being rejected’. In typical style The EU has kicked the whole thing out. It’s ‘my way or the highway’ as is usual with the megalomaniac EU mandarins.
The deal was terrible, whether you are leave or remain that deal was totally unacceptable. It was worse than no deal and worse than staying.
Basically the EU are hoping that like a bad dog owner if they beat us enough we’ll behave and so will everyone else. If they beat us hard enough with a big enough stick we will behave. If they can beat one of the richest countries into submission then others won’t try it. I think other countries have been shocked at the EUs behaviour and I know many who voted remain who now think we should leave because of the way the EU have conducted themselves.

 

[moggy1968]

True that Ireland was not mentioned till well in to this thread but in a way it caused it to start. Ireland was in the debate even before the referendum.

Blackmail is not involved. Our PM agreed a deal and now she is trying to go back on it. Maybe not her fault but if the EU say they do not want to renegotiate that is OK.

She didn’t agree a deal as far as I recall.
She did however agree, and was voted in on that basis, that we would leave in March, deal or now deal. She has totally renaged on her mandate and needs to go.
If she agrees that deal she has sold us and all future generations into EU servitude for ever. It is a deal that will destroy this country.

 

[Chas]

All good Chas.. not taking it to heart fella! I do see why some leave voters voted leave, and I'm not blind to the flaws within the E.U either. Although I was hopeful that we could have avoided the Hitler thing! For me the bigger problem is the ludicrous situation that we are in now. To some extent its ignorance of the consequences of the vote that bothers me. And that's MPs I'm talking about..

I found the clip I was looking for originally, without Herr Hitler,

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=513143645859870

Shows to me the attitude of the EU politicians.

 

[moggy1968]

As in a bail out do you mean , Yes thank god both Cyprus and Ireland are members that they got the EU to bail them out , both nations are back on their feet and doing very well all thanks to the EU ,

No, I meant their own war.