The people have spoken

goodoldboy Nov 28, 2018

  1. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    We will be even more of a laughing stock if we back pedal now.
    There are a number of inaccuracies in that article which make the argument not very sustainable.
    The worst thing is a years delay because the uncertainty is causing enormous damage. In a years time I honestly don’t think we’ll be any further forward. The powers that be will still be sat round wringing their hands.
    May’s capitulation is a humiliation. The deal is an absolute disaster. Despite my conviction of the benefits of leave I’d rather stay than have that deal, but frankly I think that’s what they are after.
     
    goodoldboy likes this.
  2. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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  3. Chas

    Chas Well-Known Member I am in england

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    :laughing-rolling: That was funny :laughing-rolling:
     
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  4. Chas

    Chas Well-Known Member I am in england

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    Brexit sorted.
    .

    The Krays.jpg
     
    Shayne likes this.
  5. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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  6. grantw

    grantw Well-Known Member Supporter

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  7. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    We were forced to , EU rules sent thousands of perfectly well maintained boats , some near new to their graves . Families that knew no other life for generations were bankrupt because a million pound boat becomes worthless at the stroke of a pen by some bureaucrat who's name nobody will ever know .

    Father's who still fish refuse to let their son's aboard now , they have for years because the sea is more predictable than rules .
     
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  8. grantw

    grantw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm curious to know what rules those were Shayne.
     
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  9. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/fishermen-forced-to-scrap-boats-and-cut-catches-1524112.html

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570437/Labour-threw-away-UK-fishing-industry.html

    I can't find it but there was a tv documentary years ago about a Scottish family after generations of fishing had sold their boats and remortgaged their homes to invest in a new build trawler , but towards the end of say a 3 year build process the rules changed turning dreams into an impossible business model . The entire family probably now lives in rented accommodation and works for minimum wage stacking shelves most likely .

    A fishing trawler without a license is like a house condemned as unfit for habitation regardless of its condition , when the bills are still coming i but you can't make it pay you may as well sell the land/license .

    And yes most licenses are bought and sold by brokers , its a lucrative game because they don't issue any new licenses .

    I have invested at least 10 times the value of my own fishing license on that scrap of paper and i know that some numpty with the stroke of a pen can turn it all into nothing but scrap value , by comparison the boat sinking is by far the better option because i can insure against that and so only lose half my investment .

    Nobody buys a fishing boat to get rich , they buy a job for life because they know no other way to live , bit like farming only for us our assets depreciate in value year on year .

    My brothers eldest son is an electrician because "this is my dream son , but i wouldn't wish it on anyone else"
     
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  10. grantw

    grantw Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Lots of sad stories there Shayne.

    I can't begin to understand the industry and the issues it's faced.

    I know the CFP is a complete mess with the quotas but I believe it's best to try and reform that from the inside.

    We as the UK really don't help ourselves when we don't hold our EU fisheries minister to account for his abysmal attendance record. He has only attended one of the 42 meetings he should have. I really don't understand how the pro brexit campaign hold him up as a golden child with someone who is on their side.
     
    MarkW likes this.
  11. Paddler Ed

    Paddler Ed Well-Known Member I am in australia

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    Interestingly, both those pieces you referenced Shayne only looked at the reduction in quota size to protect fish stocks from over fishing.

    This piece from the Guardian is an interesting read, and states that the smaller boats that are often privately owned have a lower impact on the fish stocks than the big guys do - common sense really, but the problem is that the process is now probably too far along to recover from it. https://www.theguardian.com/comment...shermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government

    And whilst you might not like Greenpeace (at times I question their actions) they can be quite thorough sometimes:
    https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/11/fishing-quota-uk-defra-michael-gove/

    The Times also pick up on this:
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/foreigners-to-net-uk-fish-after-brexit-hpf6njhvt
    "Britain’s fish will still belong to Europe after Brexit — because Spain, Holland and Iceland have bought up nearly 90% of the entire fishing quota of Wales and more than half the quota assigned to England.


    Foreign owners of the fishing rights have also set up UK businesses to hold the quota, making meaningful change unlikely after the country leaves the EU."


    I don't deny that the CFP and associated bits are a nightmare, but the other options are not much prettier - however, if the UK actually kept hold of things instead of selling them for a quick shilling (and they really were getting shillings at times) then it might all be a bit better. The fishing quotas join things like the public utilities, public transport etc, which are now often owned by European countries after Thatcher's screw the unions over by selling everything off to the private sector policy.
     
  12. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Which brings us to the crux of Brexit , 17.4 million people are not only 100% convinced (and have been for decades) that nobody in power is on our side , hell i've been 100% convinced the Government would rather see me dead than see me succeed since i was a kid in school .

    And Pat its a knock on effect , no bank will gamble on the fishing industry no matter what returns you can show , i can't mortgage my boat to buy another because what if it sinks they say . The clever ones pooled resources and instead invested in so called "factory ships" and or onshore processing , as time went on the better business heads pushed out partners .

    But species makes a huge difference to the fleet dynamics , a 15 metre boat will never break even on a weekly basis never mind an annual one fishing lobster because its to big , not in British waters . Some shellfish migrate some are essentially farmed . 3 weeks of the year i'm dead centre of the herring migration route , i don't know but i'd guess worth say £300 a box but alas i can't even catch one fish with a rod because i have no quota allowance . Squid and mackerel come on big at certain times of the year to and i think i can catch them , or i could yesterday but not this morning might be able to again this afternoon :roll: if they jumped aboard of their own accord i'd just shovel them back into the sea because i have enough to worry about just trying to keep up with my main game .

    Local regulations protect inshore fishing (3 or 12 mile depending) but they use the same quota rules . Office people saying we have looked at your returns and decided you can make a reasonable living fishing only 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 7 months of the year , please be aware we might at any moment insist you remove 20 grands worth of gear from the sea , but its ok because we will let you replace it with 20 grands worth of alternative species gear . Please note if you want to keep your license for both sets of gear you must use both sets at alternative times during your 7 working months at your cost both in lost time and lost fishing .

    What can we do :confusion-shrug:

    "can you please order the weather and tides to adhere to your program"

    Rules have nothing whatsoever to do with conservation , fishermen are the conservationists by nature , we are nomads forever wandering , we find our garden and pick only enough fruit to feed us before searching for another garden safe in the knowledge we can return to the previous garden next year and it will be abundant again . To do otherwise is like volunteering for starvation .
     
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  13. Rob Cowell

    Rob Cowell Well-Known Member I am in wales

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    Has the current "government" given any clues on how they plan to regulate fishing post Brexit?

    All we've really seen in farming is that any subsidy will be further environmentally based and then phased out within 10 years. Whereupon we can all buy heavily subsidised produce from Europe and kill off our agricultural industry. Actually all Gove said was subsidy would be linked to the environment, which all of it is right now, but that was too complicated for the soundbite.
     
  14. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Nobody works for us Rob they are employee's and the boss is drunk blind and stupid , 30 years of soundbites nobody believed in the first place . Whatever you might think of her Thatcher was the last leader we had and a man/woman with a plan is unlikely to come from the current crop of gravy train jockeys . But we have to start somewhere while there's still something left to save .

    That's where you are heading if we remain , same way most of everything else has already gone .
     
  15. Rob Cowell

    Rob Cowell Well-Known Member I am in wales

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    OK. But is there a policy from the current government describing how they will handle fisheries? Have they made any effort to communicate it to the fishing industry?
     
  16. Rob Cowell

    Rob Cowell Well-Known Member I am in wales

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    I am more than happy to defer to you on fishing matters I'd like to think I have a little bit more experience in agriculture. 95% of our lamb exports are to the EU. China is potentially a big market but they already have an FTA with Australia and New Zealand, who in any case are closer and can produce cheaper under their ranch systems which our environmental policies (and land prices) wouldn't allow us to recreate. Right now I get the same subsidy as producers across the EU and our product is competitive and in demand. There is no sign of anyone in the EU impinging on our market share. The WTO tariff on lamb is 50%.
     
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  17. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Same as everything else , how can there be a plan when there is nothing but hearsay and gossip to base it on ?

    Current thinking seems to be no change on present arrangements other than i might have to fill in another sheet of paper nobody will ever read .
     
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  18. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member Supporter I am in ireland

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  19. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Why not they bought Obama
     
  20. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member Supporter I am in ireland

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    I found it interesting, in that it quells the notion that the UK can simply make it's own deals after Brexit.

    It reminds me of the kid in my class in school who got fed up playing football with us one day, and took his ball home.. were he had nobody to play with. He came back in with it a few days later
     
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