The people have spoken

[Higgy]

So she can deliver something nobody wants .

For a moment i thought you were talking about Midwives in the NHS..

 

[Shayne]

I have no idea what you mean , most of them got married 8 months later . Might try that myself one day - when i'm old enough .

 

[pyemaster]

'Will of the people.'

Let's discuss this for a minute, in looking for a majority.

52% of the people voted to leave, but in a variety of different guises. There certainly weren't 17.4m people who wanted no deal. Likewise there wasn't 17.4m backing a customs union exit, or a soft Brexit, or Norway, or a whatever exit. That figure is compiled from numerous factions, including protest votes against Tory austerity, the great confused, all sorts.

On the other hand, the 48% knew exactly what they wanted, and were all on the same page.

So when talking of the 'will of the people', it's a fair argument to say that remain actually had the greater will in terms of a common goal.

Owen

 

[moggy1968]

'Will of the people.'

Let's discuss this for a minute, in looking for a majority.

52% of the people voted to leave, but in a variety of different guises. There certainly weren't 17.4m people who wanted no deal. Likewise there wasn't 17.4m backing a customs union exit, or a soft Brexit, or Norway, or a whatever exit. That figure is compiled from numerous factions, including protest votes against Tory austerity, the great confused, all sorts.

On the other hand, the 48% knew exactly what they wanted, and were all on the same page.

So when talking of the 'will of the people', it's a fair argument to say that remain actually had the greater will in terms of a common goal.

Owen

You had me there right up until that classic remain rubbish that people that voted leave didn’t know what they voted for while everyone that voted remain did. What utter garbage.

 

[Chas]

'Will of the people.'

Let's discuss this for a minute, in looking for a majority.

52% of the people voted to leave, but in a variety of different guises. There certainly weren't 17.4m people who wanted no deal. Likewise there wasn't 17.4m backing a customs union exit, or a soft Brexit, or Norway, or a whatever exit. That figure is compiled from numerous factions, including protest votes against Tory austerity, the great confused, all sorts.

On the other hand, the 48% knew exactly what they wanted, and were all on the same page.

So when talking of the 'will of the people', it's a fair argument to say that remain actually had the greater will in terms of a common goal.

Owen

Bullshit!

 

[moggy1968]

Everybody that voted remain did so because they’re spineless cowards who can’t bear the thought of anything changing and are incapable of independent or critical thinking so believed all the bullshit hysteria. They just wanted to maintain the status quo because they’re too afraid of change.

 

[pyemaster]

Yeah righto.

Owen

 

[goodoldboy]

Everybody that voted remain did so because they’re spineless cowards

We've had a lively debate in this subject but mostly without insults.If you can't make your argument without defaming half the population think again.

 

[moggy1968]

We've had a lively debate in this subject but mostly without insults.If you can't make your argument without defaming half the population think again.

Read pyemasters post again!!! It defamed 17.2 million people
I mean seriously man.
What I was doing here was writing a post about remain in the same vein as the post about leave. It’s called irony. That’s why it had the emoji at the end.
If you seriously think you and your remain buddies have managed this without insults you need to take a long hard look back over what has been written
Oh and half the population didn’t vote remain.
Jeez man, get a grip!!

 

[Rob Cowell]

I imagine there's as lot of different wants out of voting leave or remain.

We know there are infinite flavours of leave, many of which were offered during the referendum, and that's why we are where we are now with the political impasse.

We should also recognise there are flavours of remain. There will be rabid europhiles, but also many people with varying degrees of support for the institution who think we are better served as members but trying to shape reforms.

I know people who voted leave who can see lots of benefits to staying in the EU, but on balance, when given a binary choice, think leave is better.

One thing we are all seeing is what a sovereign parliament looks like.

 

[moggy1968]

I imagine there's as lot of different wants out of voting leave or remain.

We know there are infinite flavours of leave, many of which were offered during the referendum, and that's why we are where we are now with the political impasse.

We should also recognise there are flavours of remain. There will be rabid europhiles, but also many people with varying degrees of support for the institution who think we are better served as members but trying to shape reforms.

I know people who voted leave who can see lots of benefits to staying in the EU, but on balance, when given a binary choice, think leave is better.

One thing we are all seeing is what a sovereign parliament looks like.

Absolutely. Whatever people voted for there were many and varied reasons why people made their choices. To suggest 48% voted for the same reason is ridiculously simplistic.
It’s interesting that this episode can trace its origins back to the expenses scandal. That was when people in the greater population first really started to realise how corrupt and disconnected politics is and started to feel disenfranchised by the current political system.

 

[Chas]

Everybody that voted remain did so because they’re spineless cowards who can’t bear the thought of anything changing and are incapable of independent or critical thinking so believed all the bullshit hysteria. They just wanted to maintain the status quo because they’re too afraid of change.

 

[grantw]

Read through this ... "no deal" wasn't actually ever an option.

https://threader.app/thread/1113547733300842497

Summary towards the end:
"Now if you’re right we voted for no deal, it means the voters ignored the law, the ballot slip, the government leaflet, the Prime minister, the rest of the debate, and pretty much everything. "

I know some of you want to leave at all and any costs - but it certainly wasn't what was on offer.

 

[Rob Cowell]

I think there's two elements to this. What was said prior to the referendum, and I don't believe anyone of any standing suggested no deal was an option.

And what was in the Conservative party 2017 manifesto which does say they believe no deal is better than a bad deal.

The complexity then is that the Conservative party lost seats based on that manifesto and only have a majority through a confidence and supply agreement that does not allow them to whip for support on the specifics of a deal, only legislation to govern leave dates and parliamentary input.

 

[Chas]

Read through this ... "no deal" wasn't actually ever an option.

https://threader.app/thread/1113547733300842497

Summary towards the end:
"Now if you’re right we voted for no deal, it means the voters ignored the law, the ballot slip, the government leaflet, the Prime minister, the rest of the debate, and pretty much everything. "

I know some of you want to leave at all and any costs - but it certainly wasn't what was on offer.

Sorry Grant but when someone starts off with a smart arse comment like "I don’t know if you were out of the country at the time" (Implying if you didn't see this you must be blind/ignorant) then all interest is lost. He may be right in what he says but he has lost his audience.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Sorry Grant but when someone starts off with a smart arse comment like "I don’t know if you were out of the country at the time" (Implying if you didn't see this you must be blind/ignorant) then all interest is lost. He may be right in what he says but he has lost his audience.

Bullshit!

There's an implied emoji from me at the end of this.

 

[Chas]

There's an implied emoji from me at the end of this.

Complementary or derogatory?

 

[Chris]

I've deliberately steered clear of this one, perhaps I'm a spineless coward ha ha. But something just worth considering is that when we talk about the will of the people - whichever side of the fence you sit on, only 72.2% of the 46 million registered voters turned out. There may have been more people of course eligible to register but didn't. Perhaps they wanted to stay hidden?

So 52 % of those who voted to leave didn't actually represent 52% of the country, nor of those eligible to vote but 52% of the people who bothered to fill in a ballot paper.

Yes yes I know that's how democracy works - the vote was won by a majority. End of story. But it's not the will of the people, it's the will of around 37% of the people registered to vote. That's actually 25% of the entire living population.

What's the point I'm making. Meh, none really but just adding some facts which seem to be in fairly short supply in the whole debate.

Ok ding ding, round 7.

As a PS I didn't vote to leave. I didn't vote to stay. But I did vote. I voted not to leave. Ahh haa you say, semantics. Nope. I wasn't frightened of change, reluctant to embrace a new dawn etc; I simply knew what a f***** complete f*** up leaving would actually be and that the process - not the outcome, would be damaging to everyone. Should have had a tenner on that one. As has been said in the few posts I have read what ever you voted for, I am sure no one voted for this! I see people saying, 'oh just get on with it' Trouble is that you can't. Even if we just walked away, we'd still have to pack our bags (metaphorically) and even that's not straight forward. Anyone who thought that leaving would be dead simple (regardless of motive) needs to see a specialist.

 

[Chas]

I've deliberately steered clear of this one, perhaps I'm a spineless coward ha ha. But something just worth considering is that when we talk about the will of the people - whichever side of the fence you sit on, only 72.2% of the 46 million registered voters turned out. There may have been more people of course eligible to register but didn't. Perhaps they wanted to stay hidden?

So 52 % of those who voted to leave didn't actually represent 52% of the country, nor of those eligible to vote but 52% of the people who bothered to fill in a ballot paper.

Yes yes I know that's how democracy works - the vote was won by a majority. End of story. But it's not the will of the people, it's the will of around 37% of the people registered to vote. That's actually 25% of the entire living population.

What's the point I'm making. Meh, none really but just adding some facts which seem to be in fairly short supply in the whole debate.

Ok ding ding, round 7.

As a PS I didn't vote to leave. I didn't vote to stay. But I did vote. I voted not to leave. Ahh haa you say, semantics. Nope. I wasn't frightened of change, reluctant to embrace a new dawn etc; I simply knew what a f***** complete f*** up leaving would actually be and that the process - not the outcome, would be damaging to everyone. Should have had a tenner on that one. As has been said in the few posts I have read what ever you voted for, I am sure no one voted for this! I see people saying, 'oh just get on with it' Trouble is that you can't. Even if we just walked away, we'd still have to pack our bags (metaphorically) and even that's not straight forward. Anyone who thought that leaving would be dead simple (regardless of motive) needs to see a specialist.

I can't agree with that Chris, but I like your way of thinking.

 

[chadr]

Sorry Grant but when someone starts off with a smart arse comment like "I don’t know if you were out of the country at the time" (Implying if you didn't see this you must be blind/ignorant) then all interest is lost. He may be right in what he says but he has lost his audience.

He was responding to Piers Morgan with his "smart arse comment" - so IMHO , he can be as derogatory as he likes!

As an aside, saw this today and pretty much sums up the hypocrisy of some of our politicians;