Towing with a 1HZ: experiences?

[DerekV]

Hi,

I currently have an LC 120 1KD, and also a Land Rover Defender 2.2 Puma. I use these to tow a small caravan (weight approx 1 tonne) a few times per year and, rarely, a trailer up to 2.5 tonnes. Both these vehicles tow very well for my purposes, but I'm now having to sell the 120 as I can't run three vehicles anymore, and it's got me wondering if I should also sell the Defender and buy a brand new 70 series (76, 78 or 79 DC). My preference is for the 1HZ as I'm not bothered about speed and I'm looking for the least amount of electronics possible. I've read various reports about the suitability of the 1HZ for towing, but I'm finding it hard to get a clear answer. Some people say that they're completely gutless and you'll need low range to get up every hill, and others say that they're fine as long as you're not expecting the performance of a modern diesel. I believe that in some countries they're only rated at 1.5T towing capacity, but I think when they're imported to the UK, it's 3.5T, so I don't think these ratings necessarily have much to do with engine power.

I think my main questions are really:
- Is towing 2.5T occasionally going to overstress a 1HZ and possibly cause problems? I don't do it very often.
- I'm not at all bothered about going up hills in high gears, but am I likely to end up at 10mph in 1st gear on every hill with 2.5T on the back?

Any 1HZ towing experiences would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Derek.

 

[GeekOKent]

You need to drive a 1hz yourself and check what gearbox you have on the new 70.

I have a 1hz, and I will not tow anything. It's ok to load the car up with the family, dog and a week's worth of supplies and a roof tent. But seriously, while people do it, it's not worth towing with it. Keep the 120, sell the defender. Use the 120 for towing.

 

[chapel gate]

No,no, and why?

If your thinking of spending new 70 series money, why not import a rust free low mileage 80 from Japan?
Just as little electronics as a 1hz, and just as simple to diagnose and repair. you would have plenty of cash left to go to town on the 80, including intercooler and g turbo.

 

[DerekV]

Thanks everyone for your replies...

You need to drive a 1hz yourself and check what gearbox you have on the new 70.

I have a 1hz, and I will not tow anything. It's ok to load the car up with the family, dog and a week's worth of supplies and a roof tent. But seriously, while people do it, it's not worth towing with it. Keep the 120, sell the defender. Use the 120 for towing.

I do plan to test drive one if I decide it's possibly the way to go. Ultimately I realise this is really the only way to know for sure if it's suitable.

I didn't realise there were different manual 'boxes on the brand new ones - are they different ratios for different markets?

While I see your logic, unfortunately, the 120 is just going to be too costly to maintain to the level the level that I'd like to, with all its complexity and the price of parts, so I can't really afford to keep it long term. Furthermore, I also have another normal car, and I get tired of having to use the diagnostic tool every time I do any form of work on it, so I'd like to get something that's just super simple, a bit like the Defender, but better built! If I were to sell both the 120 and the LR, it should be pretty close to a straight swap with a new 1HZ 78.

When you say that you will not tow anything with it, is this just because it's really slow compared to the more modern alternatives, or is there another reason? I always used to tow with a LR 300TDI, which has fairly similar specs I believe to a 1HZ, and presumably back in the '80s when the 1HZ was the latest engine, people must have used it for towing, and the Coaster bus it was also used in had a gross weight of about 6 tonnes if I recall? I'm not considering buying one primarily for towing things though - it would only be a few times per year.

No,no, and why?

If your thinking of spending new 70 series money, why not import a rust free low mileage 80 from Japan?
Just as little electronics as a 1hz, and just as simple to diagnose and repair. you would have plenty of cash left to go to town on the 80, including intercooler and g turbo.

Thanks. I see what you mean about the 80, but the thing is that I have a normal car as well that I use for times when a bit more comfort is required, and the things that appeal about the 70 are the sheer simplicity and bare-bones nature (like the Defender) and the extremely capacious loadspace of the 78 (I often cart around large equipment and the extra room would be very welcome). I'd also prefer to buy new in this instance, rather than something that went out of production almost 30 years ago: if they still produced the 80, then I might be able to be convinced to change my mind!!

 

[Shayne]

Used 1996 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 70 SUV for sale | every

Used 1996 toyota land-cruiser-70 for sale. Reg Year/Month 1996/12, Mileage 226000 km, Engine Size 4200 cc, Transmission MT, Drive Type 4WD, Steering Right Hand, Model Code KC-HZJ77V, Chassis No HZJ77V-0008***, Fuel 5, Color 25, Seats 5, Maximum , Status In-Stock

www.everycar.jp

 

[GeekOKent]

It has to work harder than a 1kd - I guess you can try fix that with a turbo. The gearing ratio are very low, to compensate - but you can fix that too.

Its also not euro-anything-worthwhile, suspect that too is fixable(?).

Yes, it was great in 80's, the 90's - and it's a great feeling to be in it. But in 2025, I am going to be honest - there's about 0% chance I would buy a new one of these.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the 105, but I won't spend new-car money on one, today.

 

[chapel gate]

You would have to be half mad to actively seek out a 1hz! They also have a bit of a habit of cracking heads. Not what you want in a towing vehicle. Other than cost, there is no point to there existence when the 1HDT and 1HDFT are available.

Sorry GOK, I always feel a bit guilty when I'm giving the 1HZ a hard time!

 

[Shayne]

My search was interrupted when i posted the one above , I was actually looking for a factory 4.2 turbo 70 series which I'm sure I've seen somewhere in the past but can't seem to find ?

 

[DerekV]

It has to work harder than a 1kd - I guess you can try fix that with a turbo. The gearing ratio are very low, to compensate - but you can fix that too.

Its also not euro-anything-worthwhile, suspect that too is fixable(?).

Yes, it was great in 80's, the 90's - and it's a great feeling to be in it. But in 2025, I am going to be honest - there's about 0% chance I would buy a new one of these.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the 105, but I won't spend new-car money on one, today.

To be honest, I'd rather leave it stock. The primary thing that I'd potentially be buying the vehicle for is to get the absolute best reliability and longevity that I possibly could - hence my interest in the 1HZ. I'm not bothered in the slightest about performance, providing that I could tow very occasionally with it and rely on it to get the job done (albeit slowly it would seem!). I realise that the towing performance of the 1HZ pales in comparison to more modern turbo engines, but I'm not looking for a great towcar - if this was my primary objective I'd probably just keep the Land Rover that I have! I'm really looking for something that I can keep indefinitely (providing I can keep the rust off!) that has the ability to tow things from time to time, without failing to reach the top of the hill or destroying itself, but not necessarily in record time!!

With regard to the euro emissions standards, that's a bonus for me - I've had too many bad experiences with DPFs and EGRs - it's one of the things that lets down my current Land Rover.

I can totally see what you're saying - compared to a modern 4x4 it's probably laughable in many respects - but I'm trying to get something super basic that will last decades with proper care. I have a modern normal car too and it's great in many respects, but although it's well made, with all the electronic gadgetry, emissions controls and complexity, it feels like it was built with an expiry date, which is what I'm trying to avoid with this vehicle.

You would have to be half mad to actively seek out a 1hz! They also have a bit of a habit of cracking heads. Not what you want in a towing vehicle. Other than cost, there is no point to there existence when the 1HDT and 1HDFT are available.

Sorry GOK, I always feel a bit guilty when I'm giving the 1HZ a hard time!

Haha! I am pretty much half mad I think! The thing is, you can't buy the 1HD anymore and I'm really looking for a new vehicle to be honest.

With regard to cracking heads - is this a likelihood? I have heard of this when they have had a turbo fitted, but is it common without as well? Obviously if this was going to be a real risk if I towed anything with it then I'd need to reconsider. Presumably this only happens if the engine is allowed to overheat?

My search was interrupted when i posted the one above , I was actually looking for a factory 4.2 turbo 70 series which I'm sure I've seen somewhere in the past but can't seem to find ?

Ah right, I wondered what happened! Was that the 1HD? I'm not entirely well-versed in Land Cruiser engines!!

 

[Gav missin]

I had a 1hz in an 80 series a few years back. It was my first big cruiser coming from a 70 series and it was an auto too. I towed regularly with it 16 ft ifor Williams with a vehicle on it and I've got to say it didn't seem too bad. Low end was very torqey and just used to let it do it's own thing. Thrashing it never increased speed really. Was much better imo than landrover 200tdi I'd used previously. I did crack the head but I did do a couple hundred mile round trip with no water in it. Rear heater hose snapped in half. Sounds unlikely but 100% true. Only realized when I got home as it smelt very hot and was pinking. Filled it up when cool and it drove ok albeit pressurized and steaming from exhaust. When I got my next 80 with turbo obviously I realized how much more poke it had. I can't really knock my 1hz to be fair. In fact I have another cruiser project lined up with that very engine. I think we're all just used to the power we have available and naturally turn nose to anything with less.

 

[chapel gate]

ok, my last post on this as im starting to bore myself, let alone anyone else..

by diesel 80 series i mean 1HD T or 1HD FT.

The primary thing that I'd potentially be buying the vehicle for is to get the absolute best reliability and longevity that I possibly could

diesel 80 series.

I'm really looking for something that I can keep indefinitely (providing I can keep the rust off!) that has the ability to tow things from time to time, without failing to reach the top of the hill or destroying itself,

diesel 80 series.

but I'm trying to get something super basic that will last decades with proper care.

diesel 80 series.

The thing is, you can't buy the 1HD anymore and I'm really looking for a new vehicle to be honest.

every single part for the 1HD T engine is still available new from toyota. bar the fuel return rail. you can still buy new a short block and complete cylinder head.

it ticks every box other than: being a new vehicle and cubic load capacity of a LWB 70.

 

[chapel gate]

With regard to cracking heads - is this a likelihood? I have heard of this when they have had a turbo fitted, but is it common without as well? Obviously if this was going to be a real risk if I towed anything with it then I'd need to reconsider. Presumably this only happens if the engine is allowed to overheat?

if you keep everything in tip top order, it shouldnt be a problem. push things and it will quickly become one.

 

[albycamel]

No,no, and why?

If your thinking of spending new 70 series money, why not import a rust free low mileage 80 from Japan?
Just as little electronics as a 1hz, and just as simple to diagnose and repair. you would have plenty of cash left to go to town on the 80, including intercooler and g turbo.

Any advice on where/how to buy an 80 series in Japan- or who would be a good contact? I've tried websites but can't seem to make progress with online enquires.

 

[Towpack]

Vehicle towing ratings here in the UK are calculated using vehicle weight rather than power so a 1HZ engined LC may well have the same rating as the same model fitted with a much more powerful turbo 1HD-T/FT.
The 1HZ is slow but practically bullet proof, many have succesfully had turbo's fitted retrospectively, so I doubt you would actualy "over stress" it. It just wouldn't pull a heavy load very well go very fast.

 

[Shayne]

Different strokes for different folks , I'd rather have an old defender than a 120 and I'd rather drive a 90 series cruiser over both .

Just test drive what floats your boat and get a feel for it . For a benchmark to start it would be worth taking an 80 for a spin . For me the added value of age is they are exempt from much of the nanny state rules .

 

[GeekOKent]

@DerekV maybe I didn't word it well, but the 1hz is a nice place to be in without a doubt. I drive one everyday more or less. But buying a new one in 2025 is where things go a bit nutty.

And again, make sure you drive one before you buy one!

 

[chapel gate]

Any advice on where/how to buy an 80 series in Japan- or who would be a good contact? I've tried websites but can't seem to make progress with online enquires.

a lad called Martin, who I've not seen on here for a while, his dad imported a lovely 80 without any problems. He's local to me, so I can get him to make contact if your serious.

 

[DerekV]

Hi all,
I really appreciate all the great info and advice everyone's giving. Thanks very much.

I had a 1hz in an 80 series a few years back. It was my first big cruiser coming from a 70 series and it was an auto too. I towed regularly with it 16 ft ifor Williams with a vehicle on it and I've got to say it didn't seem too bad. Low end was very torqey and just used to let it do it's own thing. Thrashing it never increased speed really. Was much better imo than landrover 200tdi I'd used previously. I did crack the head but I did do a couple hundred mile round trip with no water in it. Rear heater hose snapped in half. Sounds unlikely but 100% true. Only realized when I got home as it smelt very hot and was pinking. Filled it up when cool and it drove ok albeit pressurized and steaming from exhaust. When I got my next 80 with turbo obviously I realized how much more poke it had. I can't really knock my 1hz to be fair. In fact I have another cruiser project lined up with that very engine. I think we're all just used to the power we have available and naturally turn nose to anything with less.

It's interesting to hear a comparison with the 200Tdi. As I mentioned, I had a 300Tdi, which was basically the same in terms of power, and coming from the petrol Volvo that I had before it, it seemed like it was unstoppable, but I'm sure if I went back to it now, it would seem a bit lacklustre - but I still prefer the Tdi to the Puma that I have now for other reasons, and it wouldn't bother me if I had to go back to it!! So I do think it really depends on what you're used to. As I say, I don't tow for a living, and I'm not remotely bothered about speed etc in a vehicle like this, providing it can keep going (on tarmac roads) without needing low range or anything silly, so from your experience it sounds very much like I imagined it would probably be - slow but workable. Regarding cracking the head, it's pretty impressive that it kept running that long with no water in it to be honest!! And good luck with your project!

ok, my last post on this as im starting to bore myself, let alone anyone else..

by diesel 80 series i mean 1HD T or 1HD FT.




diesel 80 series.

diesel 80 series.

diesel 80 series.


every single part for the 1HD T engine is still available new from toyota. bar the fuel return rail. you can still buy new a short block and complete cylinder head.

it ticks every box other than: being a new vehicle and cubic load capacity of a LWB 70.

Haha, no worries! I see where you're coming from, and I very much admire the 80 series, and I can't see why Toyota don't still produce it in some remote part of the world as there seems to still be so much demand for it, but I just can't justify buying a vehicle that old, as I'm not really looking for a project at the moment! And it's true that I could do with the extra room in the 78.

if you keep everything in tip top order, it shouldnt be a problem. push things and it will quickly become one.

I would plan to keep everything tip top, as I'd be keeping the vehicle long-term, and it wouldn't be towing very much at all. Probably an average of 800 miles a year on motorways.

Vehicle towing ratings here in the UK are calculated using vehicle weight rather than power so a 1HZ engined LC may well have the same rating as the same model fitted with a much more powerful turbo 1HD-T/FT.
The 1HZ is slow but practically bullet proof, many have succesfully had turbo's fitted retrospectively, so I doubt you would actualy "over stress" it. It just wouldn't pull a heavy load very well go very fast.

Ah right, I thought it was something like that.
And I think you're right - I think it probably doesn't have the power to overstress itself too much, being that it's quite a big engine by today's standards, but with much lower power output than newer engines half its size, which must be part of the reason for its reliability.

Different strokes for different folks , I'd rather have an old defender than a 120 and I'd rather drive a 90 series cruiser over both .

Just test drive what floats your boat and get a feel for it . For a benchmark to start it would be worth taking an 80 for a spin . For me the added value of age is they are exempt from much of the nanny state rules .

Yes, I'm of the same mind really. I know I have a 120, which I'm now selling, but I'm of the opinion that the real 4x4 workhorses just aren't really produced anymore, save for things like the 70 series. All the modern ones are great on paper, and they're technically excellent off road, but would you really take one of the modern Land Rover "Defenders" or even the new LC 250 to a remote area with no modern facilities - you're relying on 100 ECUs and fibre optic networks, all of which are sensitive to water and dust, and when something does go wrong (which is pretty likely with all that complexity, plastic engine components, emissions treatment etc), it will likely be impossible to repair.

That's what I plan to do. I'm in no hurry to buy and I'm just exploring my options really. I'm going to take a 1HZ for a spin at some point so that'll be interesting. And I know what you mean about all the rules - drives me mad!

@DerekV maybe I didn't word it well, but the 1hz is a nice place to be in without a doubt. I drive one everyday more or less. But buying a new one in 2025 is where things go a bit nutty.

And again, make sure you drive one before you buy one!

Haha, no your wording was fine!! I think we just all have different criteria for what we're looking for. Personally, I'm not looking for a powerhouse - I'm after near absolute reliability with the ability to do a little towing occasionally without major issues. When it comes to 4x4s, I'm very much of the old school - as basic as possible - if I'd had the choice between the Tdi with the mechanical pump or the modern Puma engine when I bought my Defender, I'd have had the Tdi every time!!