80 series gullwings rear windows

[Chris]

I feel your pain.

So why did the experts end up with wiggly frames? If they said you didn't need a jig, cannot they weld them up in their own way?

 

[StarCruiser]

They need to clamp it up and do things with spacers which is fine and doable but means, really, the jig is only good for positioning and only for this first batch as the next lot (I now really need there to be a next batch) would be done differently.

 

[grantw]

It does sound like these ones are going to be first rate so I am sure they will be worth the delay. I'm still on the probably will purchase list they are just lower down on the priority of the build .. so hopefully second batch time for you

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks Grant, that has helped enormously hearing that.

The thing is, I won't let anything out I'm not entirely happy with, and I'm a fussy bu66er, so the quality will be right.

Beyond the problems I'm having, I'm glad to have now found people that can do pretty much the whole project bar the painting, so that is good news and getting one company to do all of it will be far better from a fabrication point of view.

I've got a clear way forward that's workable, even if I've got a pile of scrap in the jig [emoji24][emoji35]

 

[grantw]

If you can nail the shipping part don't forget about ih8mud etc. It might be worth an investigation and starting a thread on various forums showing your research, build, attention to detail etc. It makes a fantastic sales pitch. Maybe even a cheeky word to Blown80 and sending out a sample once they are done . Just some thoughts anyway

 

[Chas]

Thanks Grant, that has helped enormously hearing that.

The thing is, I won't let anything out I'm not entirely happy with, and I'm a fussy bu66er, so the quality will be right.

Beyond the problems I'm having, I'm glad to have now found people that can do pretty much the whole project bar the painting, so that is good news and laser cutting will be far better from a fabrication point of view.

I've got a clear way forward that's workable, even if I've got a pile of scrap in the jig [emoji24][emoji35]

PM sent Rich

 

[Paddler Ed]

As I only dream of an 80 (I found a nice looking low km HZJ80 the other day.... didn't get any winning lotto numbers, and the Scottish winners? They weren't my in-laws... so back to the drawing board searching for the AU$10k I need), I follow this with interest, more in the engineering and design side - because I can't do any of that!

The tenacity and patience that Rich has had with this whole project has been great, and I really want to see it all pay off - I want to see the finished product!

Good luck with it, and I really hope it all works out!

Ed

 

[Pumpy]

So, what to do?
1,Get em welded pay for the jig and move on.
2, take the jig back before I pay for it and calmly gently suggest it needs to be better for the same money? Trouble is these are my customers. And there will be another delay…[emoji20]
3, get some money back by adding on to future jobs.

Not really anyone's fault but mine for going about things in a way I thought best and not finding the right fabricators to do the job (which I now have) and a jig that should have been better.

I would revist 2, explain all the issues, and your new found knowledge in design application, and then wait for them to propose something acceptable.

Who designed the jig? Were they just following drawings or did they have some design input? If they had input, they have some liability IMO, and they should see that themselves.

Difficult one. I'd hate to think you would end up out of pocket on this tho.

 

[Shayne]

Thanks Grant, that has helped enormously hearing that.

The thing is, I won't let anything out I'm not entirely happy with, and I'm a fussy bu66er, so the quality will be right.

Beyond the problems I'm having, I'm glad to have now found people that can do pretty much the whole project bar the painting, so that is good news and laser cutting will be far better from a fabrication point of view.

I've got a clear way forward that's workable, even if I've got a pile of scrap in the jig [emoji24][emoji35]

I suffer from the same ailment Rich i can dream it up but then i'm stumped as to how to make it happen , its maddenly frustrating that nothing quite measures up to the picture in your head and it does cause sleepless nights . For me botch it and bin it is usually the way forward , it adds costs but it gives me what i want at a quality i can accept and so i am sure your end product will be the mutts nuts

Please note i refer mainly to my house i'm sure Clive will give credit to the extreme lengths i have gone to in order to hide every pipe and wire which is a pet hate of mine . I am still learning with metal and mechanics but i will get there i hope

 

[StarCruiser]

Thanks all.

Pete, I'm really in a quandary about this and 2 is the right thing to do. BUT In any project there is an element of this, call it buying knowledge of you like. I did supply a pencil drawing, but as the toolmaker (my customer) had much experience of making welding jigs, I left it to his expertise, although I did question all the areas that have now buckled.

The thing is, and it pains me to say it, even if I now get the jig made 100% perfect and usable for free (which could strain my relationship with my relatively new customer; shouldn't but could) I will only be using it now for this first batch.

Moving on, the new method will be quicker, easier and likely to be at least the same cost if not better. This said, I should start making the money back and might be able to sell on through a distributor if I can get them done in numbers for the right money.

Overseas supply is really what sparked this project off, being that the shipping cost kills them. One to look at maybe in the future if someone has a regular container going (wherever) and supply could be made sustainable. It was the shipping that killed it for two sets to Canada.

We'll see, I have a clear way forward, that's the really good but that has come from this.

 

[Pumpy]

I can see you're thinking behind it Rich, and looking forward, the new method sounds like it could be easily adapted for troopys or even the green oval D+, where swallowing the jig costs would seem a non issue.

I think it might be worth editing out your new design insight from public view too.

 

[StarCruiser]

Any vehicle could be done as long as it's got window rubbers. I've even found a way to do the drawings better and quicker. [emoji4]

 

[chapel gate]

You should take the jig back out of principle if nothing else. I stand by my work, if its wrong i have to put it right out of my own pocket. Youve heard me moan before sc about shonk..

But at the end of the day you have to do what feels right to you, and what your comfortable with.

 

[clivehorridge]

I suffer from the same ailment Rich i can dream it up but then i'm stumped as to how to make it happen , its maddenly frustrating that nothing quite measures up to the picture in your head and it does cause sleepless nights . For me botch it and bin it is usually the way forward , it adds costs but it gives me what i want at a quality i can accept and so i am sure your end product will be the mutts nuts

Please note i refer mainly to my house i'm sure Clive will give credit to the extreme lengths i have gone to in order to hide every pipe and wire which is a pet hate of mine . I am still learning with metal and mechanics but i will get there i hope

I'll vouch for that. Everything in Shayne's place is unique, excellently put together and the finishings are 100% professional. I can see the hours in his work and memories of my DIY days came rushing back

And, typically, the first thing Shayne does when you walk in through the door, is tell you where all the invisible mistakes are

 

[clivehorridge]

You should take the jig back out of principle if nothing else. I stand by my work, if its wrong i have to put it right out of my own pocket. Youve heard me moan before sc about shonk..

But at the end of the day you have to do what feels right to you, and what your comfortable with.

I agree. If you asked them to knock something up to assist you that would be different. A grands worth of jig is for a purpose, and if it's not fit for purpose, no payment at all (not a discount, only full refund or fix) is the way to go, that's a basic principle at law, IMO.

 

[Chas]

And, typically, the first thing Shayne does when you walk in through the door, is tell you where all the invisible mistakes are

Ha! yes, I remember him showing me the 'mistakes' too.

 

[StarCruiser]

I agree. If you asked them to knock something up to assist you that would be different. A grands worth of jig is for a purpose, and if it's not fit for purpose, no payment at all (not a discount, only full refund or fix) is the way to go, that's a basic principle at law, IMO.

I know, you are right. The thing is, every engineering works around here works with the others. If one wants some fabrication they go to the other. If one wants something vacuum brazed they go to the other and so on. They all work together and know one another.

If I took it back:-
1, I would have another delay
2, it could be a difficult conversation as they already stuck close to their original price but have, they say, spent far more time on it than they have charged.
3, I might get a jig that's better
4, I would only have 14 doors to do on that jig.

Do I want to be left out of pocket-no
Do I want to have more work from these people as my customers -yes
Can I recoup some of the money on future work-yes

I'm going to take the easy route and not upset the apple cart as there are 4 companies involved in this now. Two of which I work for and two are potential customers.

It would be the easiest thing in the world to take it back. It would only help with 14 door frames.

 

[clivehorridge]

Aha, this is the conundrum Rich, it's your call, you have to live with it.

As you say, it may all come round ok if you get more orders, and you won't have blotted your copy-book by making a fuss. Just seems odd to me that they can make a jig, charge for it, but it doesn't do the job intended.

Your call...

 

[StarCruiser]

I know, it wasn't intentional. They're my customers and i trust them I just think the guy I dealt with made spot welding jigs before and they don't go any welding themselves.

I've decided to take the easy road. Heck I've had to swallow far bigger losses in the past. It did seriously p me off to start with but I'm happy I'm doing the right thing. I would have preferred it different but I've learned (I hope).

Move on.

 

[karl webster]

Just caught up on this Rich.

A grand to make a jig so the people can make the doors for you faster and cheaper. I hope you will see the benifit of that not them! ?

Personally I think I'd go further a field and get a quote from a company you don't know and see what price they give you. Just for your own head.

Shame it isn't going a little smoother for you mate.