A bit of controversy

[Olazz]

Now we all have had the discussion about supporting the forum for £12 per year. Some of you have made a contribution, many have chosen not to.

I have an issue about a particular aspect within in this forum.

Individuals who advertise/sell items via the forum and in so doing benefit from a captive and highly targeted audience for their goods.

I firmly believe that if you want to do this, you should not be allowed to do so, unless you have made a contribution to support the forum in some way. It isn't surprising that some that use the forum in this way, have also contributed very little in terms of advice, knowledge, information, or guidance for others to learn from or follow.

Now if your a bit of a clot, and really have noting to give the forum, but want to benefit from selling your stuff, then cough up the £12 and support it. That way, you won't come across as such a heedless, grasping little worm!

 

[Chris Green90]

I know I have dropped my website address into my signature in the last couple of days. I ask about doing this before when I had a mobile disco and was greeted with the answer "not unless it is relevant". Hence this new venture I felt OK to put up. I have been in touch with Crispin re becoming a site sponsor and in due course I will do that (Just after Xmas when cash flow is a little better.

OK in recent weeks my appearance on here has been lacking a little but that is only due to the fact that I am trying to develop my business however I feel that previously I have contributed.

I this is still a problem I will gladly take my we address off my sig line.

Chris

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

If you want me to piss off just say, don't make it ambiguous. Not aimed at me? Like I said, don't make it ambiguous. This is the kind of crap that bringing money into the equation causes. What frustrates me is I was personally invited to join this forum on a very different basis and put a lot of time and effort into helping it attract that highly targeted audience and now get to be made to feel like a grasping little worm. How much has to be contributed before you're not a grasping worm? Should I really be paying to contribute?

 

[Trevor]

I thought this had been done to death a little while back, some do and some don't but always a free choice. Not sure that press ganging anyone is the way forward, peoples content is a hard one to gauge and should it really become a metric?

Circumstances change, people have busy lives and may have contributed loads in the past but are in a quiet spell for whatever reason. A newbie will take time to learn their truck and build their confidence before being able to post good content. How do you actually start measuring that?

As for advertising, we benefit from either first dibs or a good price. The advertiser can still contribute or not (their free choice), or they could choose not to give us first dibs or a good price. The forum would lose out in the end if someone felt they shouldn't post up, we live in a free market economy and them's are the breaks in reality.

Maybe I've walked into something political that I'm not privy to, but this would make people question whether they want to post or not, doesn't seem a healthy way forward for the forum in my view. Not having a go or a pop per se but don't really understand the driving force behind the argument.

Perhaps I'm being a bit thick and happy to be educated.

 

[Olazz]

Jon,

Why do you think this was aimed at you? Have you not contributed enormously to this forum? Tech knowledge, How to do stuff, supplied parts at advantageous prices to the benefit of members, 101 electricity tutoring, general advice and help... etc etc.

This is MY point of view and not the forums point of view. You don't have to agree me, but certainly can't see why you felt it was levelled at you.

 

[yogi]

I rather thought the idea was that the 'donation' was OPTIONAL. That was really the point of it.

For that reason I think it would be better if it remained anonymous from the profile screen, fair enough if your a company its advertising, but I don't really care if people know if I'm a supporter or not. If I thought anybody wanted to buy horses from me I'd stick up all my details...... but I'm not sure why you'd be looking for that here!!

I paid it because I'm not an expert on engineering or Landcruisers, all right I'm not a TOTAL numpty when it comes to things mechanical, but I know I'll always be a net beneficiary of peoples help on here, which I wouldn't have without Crispin taking the time to do all kinds of cyberspace stuff that is beyond my comprehension to begin with, but I'm sure isn't free.

But the point is I made that choice, thought I don't think it matters if anyone else knows that. By making it public the way it is now I think leaves it open to start these kind of things where people like Jon who its clearly not aimed at understandably get vexed.

Would a 'thank-you' email or a half price sticker or something else not be simpler and more diplomatic?

Just my 2p worth, NOT trying to have a dig at ANYBODY

 

[Graham]

Now we all have had the discussion about supporting the forum for £12 per year. Some of you have made a contribution, many have chosen not to.

I have an issue about a particular aspect within in this forum.

Individuals who advertise/sell items via the forum and in so doing benefit from a captive and highly targeted audience for their goods.

I firmly believe that if you want to do this, you should not be allowed to do so, unless you have made a contribution to support the forum in some way. It isn't surprising that some that use the forum in this way, have also contributed very little in terms of advice, knowledge, information, or guidance for others to learn from or follow.

Now if your a bit of a clot, and really have noting to give the forum, but want to benefit from selling your stuff, then cough up the £12 and support it. That way, you won't come across as such a heedless, grasping little worm!

.
.
Are you aiming at me?

Just say the word and I am gone........... prick............

May be you should keep "your point of view" to your self ? if it's not that of the forum.

After all, IS IT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY ?

Gra.

 

[mrdelmonti]

.
.
Are you aiming at me?

Just say the word and I am gone........... prick............

May be you should keep "your point of view" to your self ? if it's not that of the forum.

After all, IS IT ANY OF YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY ?

Gra.

Jesus, calm down Graham, he said he wasn't aiming it at anyone in particular so why take it so personally.

At the end of the day it's a forum, a place to share knowledge and express views so grow up a little.

 

[Crispin]

Guys,

This has been thrashed to death - everyone differs in opinion. You can sponsor / donate / pay (delete as appropriate) if you want, you don't have to if you don't want to.

The forum is a wealth of knowledge served by a vast amount of very knowledgeable people - that is what makes it what it is. Mudslinging and bickering like this that detracts from it and that defeats the whole purpose.

Let's let it be and get on with things.

With the sponsors / donations / payments (again, delete to make yourself feel comfortable) and the advertising, the bills are mostly paid for each month so the original issue is taken care of.

(Gra, put all your handbags away! Just showing your intellect if you come out the blocks fists swinging)

CP

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Why do you think this was aimed at you? Have you not contributed enormously to this forum?

I don't really think it's aimed at me, but it could be, who's to judge if someone has contributed enough to not be judged a grasping little worm? I am not a 'supporter' so I must be a grasping little worm? No I am not that insecure but your post is a good demonstration of the 'evils' of making this place a 2 tiered system - people who support and those that don't, apparently?

 

[clivehorridge]

I must admit that I was surprised by the words supporter appearing.

Every member "supports" this club one way or another, with few exceptions. The consensus agreement that voluntary donations could be made should have included anonymity. Is the way we vote broadcast? Is our contributions to cancer research or Oxfam or any other voluntary organisation broadcast? No, for the same reasons.

Jon's response is a little extreme, but so was the post IMHI.

I'd like the debate to stop here and the "supporter sticker" removed. Jon's support to the club and forum is invaluable/priceless and he shouldn't be made to feel guilty for standing up for his principles, which I can only agree with.

my pennyworth......

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

For that reason I think it would be better if it remained anonymous from the profile screen

Is this an option, on an individual basis if not universally, for anyone who doesn't want the stigma of the 'supporter' tag?

 

[clivehorridge]

I can't see any way that the tag is optional, guidance and consideration requested from Cris please!

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Jon's response is a little extreme, but so was the post IMHI.

You are right Clive, it was meant to be a bit melodramatic to respond in kind Someone less thick skinned or sure of themselves might find being called a grasping little worm intimidating. What will people new to the site make of people who don't pay up being called a grasping little worm? At least now they will see that challenged. 2 main things bothered me about this payment malarky - that we'd get people judging other people's contribution or not, and that it wouldn't raise enough money to be worth bothering and Crispin would have to lock parts of the site away from those that don't pay based on his original post about that so it is good to hear the bills are mostly paid. I would pay to support something that is free for all and has no label but I wouldn't pay for something that hides stuff away from the non payers that would defeat the object of me posting a lot of what I post.

 

[grantw]

Then lets remove the supporter tag ... it seems it would take most of the issues away.

I've actually been trying to figure out who the post is aimed at and have come up blank. Not chasing names but apart from the odd "fly by nighters" that post a link and never really return I don't think that any of the people that make money on the side here don't contribute their fair amount.

 

[chadr]

I've had my "supporter" tag removed from day 1, actually never had it appear at all.....

 

[frank rabbets]

Sellers on here win because of the audience, but the audience/general public gain because they know to come here where they will get parts. I think there should be a reporting system to ban advertisers who are not reliable. This would have to be based on goodwill though. So 3 strikes from 3 different members and you are out?

Frank

 

[Shayne]

Hi folks just returned from an impromptu trip to sea and this seems like as good a place as any to start sprouting nonsense again

I bought a Haynes workshop manual when i got my cruiser , then i bought a Max Ellery workshop manual , so whats that about 60 quid and neither told me anything at all about the things i wanted to know i.e body lifts , bigger wheels , suspension upgrades . I have never worked on cars so have little in the way of knowledge to help others , but i'm learning and if my truck lasts as long as i expect it to i am reasonably confident i will eventually grow so familiar with every inch of it i will be able to offer advice .

However i am happy to pay a subscription if Crispin or whoever does it would be kind enough to send me a PM but please don't add a tag or banner or anything similar to my profile because i like to think everyone on here is here because they want to be . The advice i've been given has undoubtedly saved me a fortune , opinions have helped me make my own choices , banter , jokes , general convo's and even insults have kept me amused when i'm bored , all for the price of a chinese takeaway half of which usually ends up in the bin .

 

[Olazz]

. What will people new to the site make of people who don't pay up being called a grasping little worm? At least now they will see that challenged.

Jon,

My post said nothing about new joiners (or anyone else for that matter) having to make a contribution to be on the site. My post was specifically aimed at individuals who use the forum, who have contributed nothing to the forum by way of advice, guidance or knowledge, using the site for their own gain. If you don't agree with my sentiment, then that's fine. We are both entitled to hold strong views that differ. However you have turned this post into something it is not. "Challenging" my post is fine if you don't agree, but don't make it political.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Jon,

My post said nothing about new joiners (or anyone else for that matter) having to make a contribution to be on the site. My post was specifically aimed at individuals who use the forum, who have contributed nothing to the forum by way of advice, guidance or knowledge, using the site for their own gain. If you don't agree with my sentiment, then that's fine. We are both entitled to hold strong views that differ. However you have turned this post into something it is not. "Challenging" my post is fine if you don't agree, but don't make it political.

How is my post or posts more political than your post(s)? You knew judging by the title the post would be controversial and likely to stir things up. It sounds like you can't even tell if someone has paid up or not.