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eu in or out poll

In NZ we have huge problem with uncontrolled immigration and the majority
are coming to our biggest city which is Auckland.It is a political thing driven by unscrupulous politicians.The prices of an average home has risen from about $350,000 ten years ago to $1,000,000 and still rising and local people
can't compete in the market.The vast majority of new arrivals are coming from
India and China and as happens in the UK if anyone speaks out about it,they are accused of being racist.The government has instructed the cities to open
up more farmland for housing and the Chinese in particular are paying silly prices and land banking.We have lived on our small farm for damm near 50years and they can stick their money as in this world money is meaningless and land is the only thing that has value.We can still live off the land.
I admired Tony Abbott in Australia,He stopped the boat people and smugglers
That is what the European nations should do after they get the so called
refugees back on thir own shores,sink the boats so they can't be used again.
Some people may think this is a rant but action is needed.
 
chapel gate said:
DOUBLE our urban environment??
Click to expand...

We are going to have to do something CG. Even if we bolted the door and nailed it shut decades ago, the population explosion would still happen and it still needs to be addressed.
Forget about housing shortages, unemployment, access to education/healthcare etc, a couple of hundred years from now the real problems will be food shortages, some have suggested as early as the end of the century.
I sympathise when you describe the changes you've witnessed in your time and how you'd like it to stay the same, the only constant is change and the ability to adapt is still crucial.
No ones falling out over anything and discussion gives us an insight into others opinions and offers us a chance to maybe see another viewpoint.
 
Pat said:
In NZ we have huge problem with uncontrolled immigration and the majority
are coming to our biggest city which is Auckland.It is a political thing driven by unscrupulous politicians.The prices of an average home has risen from about $350,000 ten years ago to $1,000,000 and still rising and local people
can't compete in the market.The vast majority of new arrivals are coming from
India and China and as happens in the UK if anyone speaks out about it,they are accused of being racist.The government has instructed the cities to open
up more farmland for housing and the Chinese in particular are paying silly prices and land banking.We have lived on our small farm for damm near 50years and they can stick their money as in this world money is meaningless and land is the only thing that has value.We can still live off the land.
I admired Tony Abbott in Australia,He stopped the boat people and smugglers
That is what the European nations should do after they get the so called
refugees back on thir own shores,sink the boats so they can't be used again.
Some people may think this is a rant but action is needed.
Click to expand...

Hey Pat Hope all is well in the land of the long white cloud.
Now you see the problem is not only are they buying property but they're supporting your economy.
The Chinese were buying so much organic dried milk (after their poisoned baby milk incident) from NZ that the labels are printed in Mandarin and I noticed the advert on the escalator at Auckland airport when I left on Friday was too. Now they've stockpiled so much of the stuff that it's crashed the price as demand has fallen.
You aren't alone, you can be comforted by the fact you're in the company of British shipbuilders, Steelworkers and coal miners amongst others.
The worlds economy is built on profit and gain, farming became a business a long time ago and growing food for profit as opposed to growing food to actually feed people has made many landowners extremely rich.
The bio diesel from oil seed rape is a classic example, we grow a crop to burn as fuel in our cars while people starve to death, butter mountains and millions of gallons of milk poured down the drain to sustain a market price so some shareholder in a company like Fontera can make a few bucks. (They just increased their profits by 125%)
The EU agricultural subsidies will disappear here soon and the landed gentry who get a large share of those won't feel the pinch but you can bet farmers like yourself in the UK will.
It's definitely not the fault of corporate entities though... It's the fault of the wretched and pathetic refugees who didn't fancy having a lump of burning phosphorous punching a hole through their kids. Yep it's almost certainly their fault
 
hopeless wanderer said:
The EU agricultural subsidies will disappear here soon and the landed gentry who get a large share of those won't feel the pinch but you can bet farmers like yourself in the UK will.
Click to expand...

This is one I'm following particularly closely. If we lose the income currently provided by CAP huge numbers of farmers will just go out of business. Not the big agri-businesses in Eastern England, but the small, family hill farms in Wales, Scotland and North Engalnd, and the little dairy farms in the South West.

Luckily, two weeks ago Boris promised the NFU all the money would keep coming post Brexit.

I'm sure he'll keep his word but just in case he doesn't, the alternative would be the "Norway" model. Agri-products are not freely traded with the EU, and agri-imports have big tariffs applied which makes home production competitive and viable. If you've ever walked round a Norwegein supermarket you'll know what that does to prices.

We could perhaps make products more competitive in the home market by dropping all the environmental conditions currently in place to secure CAP. That wouldn't allow us to sell into Europe though. And expect the replanted hedges and woodland, rough field margins, and uneroded river banks to go pretty soon.

As long as there are tenant farms the landed-gentry will always be OK.
 
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"Just because you like Europe doesn't mean to say you need to like the EU? It's like saying I like football so I have to like Fifa."
EU Debate Oxford Union Daniel Hannan MEP. Brilliant :lol:
 
Pumpy said:
"Just because you like Europe doesn't mean to say you need to like the EU? It's like saying I like football so I have to like Fifa."
EU Debate Oxford Union Daniel Hannan MEP. Brilliant :lol:
Click to expand...

Good old Dan Hannan, the man who when questioned the day after Brexit said we should be negotiating to keep free movement of labour between us and the EU. Not points based. So with the 4 year freeze on benefits for new migrants from the new member states, not exactly, but very close to what we have now.

I have no problem with his specific statement differentiating the EU and Europe though.
 
hopeless wanderer said:
Hey Pat Hope all is well in the land of the long white cloud.
Now you see the problem is not only are they buying property but they're supporting your economy.
The Chinese were buying so much organic dried milk (after their poisoned baby milk incident) from NZ that the labels are printed in Mandarin and I noticed the advert on the escalator at Auckland airport when I left on Friday was too. Now they've stockpiled so much of the stuff that it's crashed the price as demand has fallen.
You aren't alone, you can be comforted by the fact you're in the company of British shipbuilders, Steelworkers and coal miners amongst others.
The worlds economy is built on profit and gain, farming became a business a long time ago and growing food for profit as opposed to growing food to actually feed people has made many landowners extremely rich.
The bio diesel from oil seed rape is a classic example, we grow a crop to burn as fuel in our cars while people starve to death, butter mountains and millions of gallons of milk poured down the drain to sustain a market price so some shareholder in a company like Fontera can make a few bucks. (They just increased their profits by 125%)
The EU agricultural subsidies will disappear here soon and the landed gentry who get a large share of those won't feel the pinch but you can bet farmers like yourself in the UK will.
It's definitely not the fault of corporate entities though... It's the fault of the wretched and pathetic refugees who didn't fancy having a lump of burning phosphorous punching a hole through their kids. Yep it's almost certainly their fault
Click to expand...

When the Chinese government gives the purchasers interest at (1%) how the hell can young New Zealanders who would like to buy homes or would like to buy farms compete.Our stupid government has allowed overseas countries to come and buy real estate,thereby pushing the prices out of the reach of the locals and furthermore have allowed the Chinese to build factories to make baby formula and other products in direct competition with NZ firms.That would not be so bad if they also didn't manufacture false claims to the detriment of NZ products while their satellite factories in NZ ship into China with no questions asked.I was a local county politician for many years and became quite adept at sniffing out corruption,however after supposed retirement,myself and others are trying to make things better ,but it is tough.
This is why I applaud Great Britain for getting rid of a corrupt bunch of losers
and finding the way to put the Great back in Britain.
 
has anyone else noticed the rising tide of news about not-leaving? Lots of subtle hints being thrown into statements and soundbites. Yes, the referendum is just an opinion poll, yes it's not binding but what would happen if we did not?

If article 50 is not invoked by the now/new PM would we all stir our tea anti-clockwise in protest and just get on with our daily jobs?
I wonder what would happen to politics - there would be less 52% less voters in the next election or would there be 52% random, "noise" votes?
 
hopeless wanderer said:
Hey Pat Hope all is well in the land of the long white cloud.
Now you see the problem is not only are they buying property but they're supporting your economy.
The Chinese were buying so much organic dried milk (after their poisoned baby milk incident) from NZ that the labels are printed in Mandarin and I noticed the advert on the escalator at Auckland airport when I left on Friday was too. Now they've stockpiled so much of the stuff that it's crashed the price as demand has fallen.
You aren't alone, you can be comforted by the fact you're in the company of British shipbuilders, Steelworkers and coal miners amongst others.
The worlds economy is built on profit and gain, farming became a business a long time ago and growing food for profit as opposed to growing food to actually feed people has made many landowners extremely rich.
The bio diesel from oil seed rape is a classic example, we grow a crop to burn as fuel in our cars while people starve to death, butter mountains and millions of gallons of milk poured down the drain to sustain a market price so some shareholder in a company like Fontera can make a few bucks. (They just increased their profits by 125%)
The EU agricultural subsidies will disappear here soon and the landed gentry who get a large share of those won't feel the pinch but you can bet farmers like yourself in the UK will.
It's definitely not the fault of corporate entities though... It's the fault of the wretched and pathetic refugees who didn't fancy having a lump of burning phosphorous punching a hole through their kids. Yep it's almost certainly their fault
Click to expand...

Might I suggest that you study history over the last couple of thousand years and see the invasions of countries and the effects on the local populace.
I would also say that while we are somewhat isolated in NZ,we have reasonable news coverage from around the world and also I have friends who have worked as medical volunteers in war torn countries and the suffering caused to those people is tremendous.But the coverage I have seen suggests that it was not women and children first but more able bodied men who should have been fighting for their country getting the hell out of it.
I am sorry if what I say may offend liberals but it needs to be said.
 
Pat said:
When the Chinese government gives the purchasers interest at (1%) how the hell can young New Zealanders who would like to buy homes or would like to buy farms compete.Our stupid government has allowed overseas countries to come and buy real estate,thereby pushing the prices out of the reach of the locals and furthermore have allowed the Chinese to build factories to make baby formula and other products in direct competition with NZ firms.That would not be so bad if they also didn't manufacture false claims to the detriment of NZ products while their satellite factories in NZ ship into China with no questions asked.I was a local county politician for many years and became quite adept at sniffing out corruption,however after supposed retirement,myself and others are trying to make things better ,but it is tough.
This is why I applaud Great Britain for getting rid of a corrupt bunch of losers
and finding the way to put the Great back in Britain.
Click to expand...

Although i sympathise with young New Zealanders who struggle to get on the property ladder or can't afford to stay within close proximity of their families, It's the same the world over. Where i lived all the quaint little picture postcard fishing villages are empty in the off season, most of the homes are owned as holiday homes for people from the South or by foreigners. If you accept capitalism and all its benefits then you have to accept the whole package, which includes the fact that China and India amongst others will in the next century become dominant in global markets and the influence and power we enjoyed for centuries will be enjoyed by other nations.
Empires greater than ours have fallen and we can try to exert our dominance for as long as we can through means fair or foul (resource wars, proxy wars, arms races environmental laws etc)
I applaud the sentiment suggesting we've got rid of a bunch of corrupt losers, But seriously?
The PM has resigned and the reigns of power are handed to the former Mayor of London who he went to school with and at the same time the Chancellor of the exchequer happened to be in the same class!!
Nobody does corruption like we do corruption in the UK.
Follow the links ... some of them you have to laugh or you'd cry.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ic-sector-workers-to-accept-pay-a6777781.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-property-deal-developer-based-tax-haven.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ion-aide-taxpayer-salary-530000-a6974181.html
 
hopeless wanderer said:
Although i sympathise with young New Zealanders who struggle to get on the property ladder or can't afford to stay within close proximity of their families, It's the same the world over. Where i lived all the quaint little picture postcard fishing villages are empty in the off season, most of the homes are owned as holiday homes for people from the South or by foreigners. If you accept capitalism and all its benefits then you have to accept the whole package, which includes the fact that China and India amongst others will in the next century become dominant in global markets and the influence and power we enjoyed for centuries will be enjoyed by other nations.
Empires greater than ours have fallen and we can try to exert our dominance for as long as we can through means fair or foul (resource wars, proxy wars, arms races environmental laws etc)
I applaud the sentiment suggesting we've got rid of a bunch of corrupt losers, But seriously?
The PM has resigned and the reigns of power are handed to the former Mayor of London who he went to school with and at the same time the Chancellor of the exchequer happened to be in the same class!!
Nobody does corruption like we do corruption in the UK.
Follow the links ... some of them you have to laugh or you'd cry.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ic-sector-workers-to-accept-pay-a6777781.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-property-deal-developer-based-tax-haven.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ion-aide-taxpayer-salary-530000-a6974181.html
Click to expand...
 
Our prime minister who I know personally is an (ex) Merrill Lynch man and
he has earnt the name of Teflon John and I am quite sure he could run the
finishing school for corruption easily.He passed with honours.
 
Pat said:
Might I suggest that you study history over the last couple of thousand years and see the invasions of countries and the effects on the local populace.
I would also say that while we are somewhat isolated in NZ,we have reasonable news coverage from around the world and also I have friends who have worked as medical volunteers in war torn countries and the suffering caused to those people is tremendous.But the coverage I have seen suggests that it was not women and children first but more able bodied men who should have been fighting for their country getting the hell out of it.
I am sorry if what I say may offend liberals but it needs to be said.
Click to expand...

I ask the same question of anyone who suggests that "Able bodied men should be fighting for their country"
You are a 25 year old man from Syria
The official military arrive and want to draft you into the government forces for Bashir Assad. You know you'll be called to drop barrel bombs on civillian areas or snipe at anything that moves on the street in Aleppo. Do you go?
Tell you what here's the alternative why don't you go the other way and wait for the stock of the AK47 to start banging on your door at 3am cos it could be other sides that want you.
so you have to make a choice out of the above or maybe one of the following groups and with a bit of luck you could be severing heads by lunchtime tomorrow.
So Pat in all seriousness ... Who are you going to fight for ? Dya fancy the ISIL armies (you could be a you tube star) or do you fancy the Al-Nusra front boys and their Al-Quaeda mates.
Tell you what, Ill pull back the lever and chamber a round if it helps clear your head.

I landed in Dunedin on the same day these refugees arrived. You know what i was filled with pride and I'm not even a Kiwi, after listening to the months of shite on facebook feeds, in papers and on TV about poor unfortunate people trapped in bombed out cities being rats/cockroaches/vermin/terrorists etc, it was so good to see decent folk offering a helping hand to the few they can help. I've seen the families out and about and the kids and mums in Countdown (It's a supermarket) Thank God/Allah/the flying spaghetti monster or whoever that those kids the same age as mine are gonna get a chance to live.
Ill bet you now that if they do a Dunedin study on those kids and watch them for decades you'll see those kids achieve amazing things and theyll be a credit to New Zealand.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/79216308/syrian-refugees-arrive-in-new-home-of-dunedin

Now we've wandered far from the topic a few times and we keep straying back to immigration because for some reason it's what the debate seems to be about nearly all the time.
One thing I'm looking forward to when i get back to England next month is all those poor people who couldnt get a a home all comfortable and getting ready for Christmas in their new houses and all those unfortunate people who were so keen to work but couldnt because of the immigrants taking their jobs excelling in their new roles as doctors , engineers and captains of industry :icon-biggrin:
 
Pat said:
Our prime minister who I know personally is an (ex) Merrill Lynch man and
he has earnt the name of Teflon John and I am quite sure he could run the
finishing school for corruption easily.He passed with honours.
Click to expand...

John key is a dick ... a fully refined weapons grade nobhead.

See Pat, we've found some common ground
 
Crispin said:
has anyone else noticed the rising tide of news about not-leaving? Lots of subtle hints being thrown into statements and soundbites. Yes, the referendum is just an opinion poll, yes it's not binding but what would happen if we did not?

If article 50 is not invoked by the now/new PM would we all stir our tea anti-clockwise in protest and just get on with our daily jobs?
I wonder what would happen to politics - there would be less 52% less voters in the next election or would there be 52% random, "noise" votes?
Click to expand...

Last night she was beautiful, her converstion was riveting and her eyes sparkled.
Today we woke up and we realise she is overweight with acne and smells of Doner meat
 
Is there a way to stop seeing this thread? I know I can just ignore but I would like to not get announcements there has been a reply.
No names, no pack drill, but I'm getting pissed off with all the flippant replies people are posting as a backhanded way of, to my mind, insulting the person they are replying to.
This thread has lost it's thread.
 
Anyone notice that Vote Leave have taken all the links off their homepage so you can't find the content any more?

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org

Fortunately they haven't yet removed the pages they no longer link to, so you can still see

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/briefing_newdeal

Which is much more equivocal than the rather vague bus message.

"We spend our money on our priorities. Instead of sending £350 million per week to Brussels, we will spend it on our priorities like the NHS and schools."
 
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