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EV's -Tesla

Comment on fires and EVs:

Statistics from Sweden show that 0.08 % of all cars burn. The number for electric and hybrids is 0.004 % (200 times less)

Numbers from Norway show that fossile fuel cars burn 4 to 5 times more often than EVs. Of the fires in EVs, only about 20% involved fire in the battery. Firebrigades claim that fires in fossile fuel cars are more dangerous because of plastic tanks and burning fuel that spreads to other areas (like other cars).
(Norway has the highest % of EVs. 80 % of sales last year, and more than half of the distance covered by all cars was done by an EV in 2022.)
 
I get the plastic fuel tanks and fuel spread igniting other things, but that is similar to EV's when they ignite and spread, and are that much more difficult to put out at source, as we've seen recently.
 
I get the plastic fuel tanks and fuel spread igniting other things, but that is similar to EV's when they ignite and spread, and are that much more difficult to put out at source, as we've seen recently.

So they are both then a similar risk factor.
 
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To be fair it's not super expensive here in the UK either, I have been paying under £0.09 the last few months on average with octopus tracker.
That sounds good, i bet most people arent paying that!

Plus if you have to charge up at a public charging point (especially on the motorway), you wont be paying 0.09 ! To be fair though, I have no idea about Norway's charging points!
 
Statistics from Sweden show that 0.08 % of all cars burn. The number for electric and hybrids is 0.004 % (200 times less)

Numbers from Norway show that fossile fuel cars burn 4 to 5 times more often than EVs. Of the fires in EVs, only about 20% involved fire in the battery. Firebrigades claim that fires in fossile fuel cars are more dangerous because of plastic tanks and burning fuel that spreads to other areas (like other cars).
Unfortunately the data here is somewhat flawed, as the age of the vehicles isn't taken into consideration - the majority of BEVs are under 5 years old (most under 3 years old, due to the recent acceleration in take up). So the stats are essentially comparing the risk of all ICE vehicles (many older cars) vs a relatively new cohort of BEVs. Be interested to see the vehicle age adjusted stats.

And I'm confused by the reference to fire brigades - certainly anything I've seen in the UK press recently indicates that emergency services are concerned with how difficult BEVs are to extinguish compared to traditional vehicles. Maybe Norway is better equipped to deal with BEV fires?
 
That sounds good, i bet most people arent paying that!
Plus if you have to charge up at a public charging point (especially on the motorway), you wont be paying 0.09 ! To be fair though, I have no idea about Norway's charging points!
In Norway, electricity is about 0.1 to 0.15 pr KWh, but it varies a lot from hour to hour, day to day, season to season. Public fast chargers are easily 5 times as much.

Unfortunately the data here is somewhat flawed, as the age of the vehicles isn't taken into consideration - the majority of BEVs are under 5 years old (most under 3 years old, due to the recent acceleration in take up). So the stats are essentially comparing the risk of all ICE vehicles (many older cars) vs a relatively new cohort of BEVs. Be interested to see the vehicle age adjusted stats.

And I'm confused by the reference to fire brigades - certainly anything I've seen in the UK press recently indicates that emergency services are concerned with how difficult BEVs are to extinguish compared to traditional vehicles. Maybe Norway is better equipped to deal with BEV fires?
The frequency of fires in vehicles does not go up much with age, and only up to about 10 years of age. Older than that, they burn less. Average age of cars in Norway is about 10 years.
Most fires start because of faults with the normal 12v electric system. That does not normally make the main battery catch fire in an EV, but it does sometimes make the fuel of an ice vehicle catch fire. The EV battery is very well encased and protected, the fuel system is not.

The fire fighters are worried about fires that can't be put out, if they are in tight spaces like ferries and parking houses, but such fires are very infrequent. The fire brigade will bring along a "garbage container" and lift the whole car into it and submerge it for 48 hours. Otherwise soak with water continuously to keep the temps down. Even turn the car over in order to cool the battery better/easier.

There was a big fire in a parking house at the Stavanger airport, where several EVs burnt among the about 400 cars. The fire made parts of the building collapse, but the EV batteries were not a problem. The fire started in a diesel car.

I do not advocate that EVs are the only way forward, or that ICE should be banned, or anything of that sort. But it is not correct that EVs are a lot more dangerous to handle or use for either the owner, or the fire fighters, or the rest of the society. As always, it depends on the individual case/situation, not so much whether EV or ICE.
 
The problem is with dumping it in a ro-ro skip full of water, is getting at it in a confined space, such as ferry, tunnel, multi story/underground car park.
It is effective though !
 
I was reading a lot of Mustang mache and EV6 forums since Nov last year. There are many other issues reported for Mach e and EV6 but no fire related ones. Was in doubt about Tesla and fire, build quality so decided to move away from Tesla and go for one of the other two. Paid a small order amount for these two but not sure which one I ll go for. Depends on finance approval. Sold Accord and will sell Lexus too and just keep Landcruiser and one of these EVs
 
When I drove Mach e, EV6, Model Y I realised how media exaggerated things.
They say these are quiet etc etc. At motorway speeds when Landcruiser sits at 1500rpm, it’s more quieter than any of these EVs. EVs are only quieter in city or slower speeds when there is no V8 roar.
None of these ride as good as Landcruiser but in media I see reporters saying wow what a quiet and smooth ride etc etc..
They all have branded sound systems B&O, Meridian etc but not as good as Landcruiser’s JBL Synthesis system. I expected better sound quality as technology improved a lot in 10 years. There are many areas where Landcruiser feels outdated compared to these EVs but general build quality , ride comfort and sound insulation is lot better in Landcruiser.
 
Yep, agree.
Grimbo is the man on that.
The bigger issue with Hydrogen is the infrastructure to refuel and transport the fuel for Hydrogen I think.... the JCB engine works well ,

NewHolland have a CNG Methane engine in production that produces 1160nm torque and 270hp and are pushing biogas as a fuel source ....this ties in with the fact that Agriculture is seen as contributing to methane and most farms can and will capture methane....
The engine is based on and little changed from an existing 6.7 litre engine and on methane has no need for SCR or after treatments it runs so clean ....this is an ICE that produces very little emission's , is an existing design and still works with existing FPS and CVT transmissions so has required very little reworking or retooling . This is the future as far as I can see.... not EV's with all the attendant "greenwashing" that goes with them.

Think on this statement from someone who works for Network Power .....
" EV's will never work and can never work in the UK ..... the power transmission network can barely cope now , we have streets in cities that are frost free because of the heat generated by the overloaded power cables underneath. The amount of infrastructure and the attendant devastation of our street and road network required to put a supply in that could cope with everyone having and charging an EV will never happen and if it did the carbon footprint would be such that it would render EV's much worse than any ICE vehicle as far as emissions go. "

Unless you charge your EV using only electricity coming from solar , wave and wind generated power then you're cheating .... you've just moved one step away from the fossil fuel that we put in the tanks of our ICE vehicles .....
 
Agree Grimbo, many have ICEs happily doing the job and at no cost as many don’t have finance and own them. Policies like 100% benefit on tax, increased road tax, various bans and penalties on ICE etc are diverting people’s savings towards EVs. Will see where all this will lead to. EVs might be pushed until electricity demand reaches its peak and then EVs and ICEs might just co exist instead of ICE ban. I don’t believe in EVs saving the planet story
 
When I drove Mach e, EV6, Model Y I realised how media exaggerated things.
They say these are quiet etc etc. At motorway speeds when Landcruiser sits at 1500rpm, it’s more quieter than any of these EVs. EVs are only quieter in city or slower speeds when there is no V8 roar.
None of these ride as good as Landcruiser but in media I see reporters saying wow what a quiet and smooth ride etc etc..
They all have branded sound systems B&O, Meridian etc but not as good as Landcruiser’s JBL Synthesis system. I expected better sound quality as technology improved a lot in 10 years. There are many areas where Landcruiser feels outdated compared to these EVs but general build quality , ride comfort and sound insulation is lot better in Landcruiser.

The reason why ev sound louder is down to there being no engine noise. In the lc you drown out a lot of the road noise. Try it with an actual sound meter. You may surprise yourself.

The other thing is check the tyres, the EV have a slightly harder compound since the power delivery is much higher and much faster. So there is more road noise outside, so the seals matter a lot more.

Finally you are much closer to the road than you would be in a cruiser.
 
When I drove Mach e, EV6, Model Y I realised how media exaggerated things.
They say these are quiet etc etc. At motorway speeds when Landcruiser sits at 1500rpm, it’s more quieter than any of these EVs. EVs are only quieter in city or slower speeds when there is no V8 roar.
None of these ride as good as Landcruiser but in media I see reporters saying wow what a quiet and smooth ride etc etc..
They all have branded sound systems B&O, Meridian etc but not as good as Landcruiser’s JBL Synthesis system. I expected better sound quality as technology improved a lot in 10 years. There are many areas where Landcruiser feels outdated compared to these EVs but general build quality , ride comfort and sound insulation is lot better in Landcruiser.
I think all EVs are built to be disposable.... they know exactly how long the battery will last and also know at that point battery replacement is totally uneconomic ... and don't forget what Apple did to I phone battery life with a software "upgrade".... simply put all the manufacturer wants to do is sell more cars so why build them to last decades ? obviously this also applies to ICE vehicles now.

Ever wondered why Toyota Landcruiser's rust so badly now compared to the 90's built ones .....

Agree with you Raj.... every EV I've looked at closely has a lack of build quality and more importantly to the drive... a feeling of build quality but you are also measuring against a 200 series so most will fall short.
 
I think build quality of most(all?) new cars is about the same, they all fall in the range of 2 to 3 on a scale of 1 to 10.
 
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