Gearbox slipping whats my Collie worth??

cbv8 Dec 31, 2018

  1. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    I agree it makes no sense but it does depend HOW the ATF was changed.

    Correct service procedure (correct me if I’m wrong here as I’m 80 based but cannot imagine the Collie would be any different.) is to undo the drain plug and allow what comes out to drain. This is probably only 1/4 of the box contents. Some folks drain from the radiator connection which doesn’t drain the prescribed amount. We had a chap on here in Oz do this just after buying a 105 (I think) and had similar symptoms to you. It corrected itself over time. This doesn’t mean yours will do the same but it’s a hydraulic system that’s not designed for total fluid removal. It is possible the system has become airlocked in some way. There is also the possibility that there was a different ATF in there from the P.O., such as fully synthetic. Any foam caused through the ATF being churned around and not flowing fully can then have adverse effects on its ability to pull clutches etc in fully, or to allow the TC to function as it should. Hence the need to monitor the level of the ATF if it’s been over drained.

    I think first of all you should drain the box from the drain plug and inspect the ATF that comes out. Burned with traces of metal would indicate bad things have happened.

    If need be Karl’s offer of a box would be a solid route to go.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
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  2. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    over fill it , what have you got to lose :confusion-shrug:
     
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  3. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    Thanks Karl the latest on my Collie is i put it into Low and it pulls up my drive no slipping but back in High and the slipping is back again surely this would happen in either H or L??
     
  4. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    My life if it pees all over the wifes lovely drive :icon-eek:
     
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  5. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    Interesting about the synthetic/foaming and air locks :?
     
  6. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    ATF has antifoaming qualities as any hydraulic oil but if air is pumped in it will almost certainly have some foaming for a short time. I experience this when first priming a hydraulic log splitter I built. So much foam came back as to overspill the tank (which was far too small) and simply pulled more foam into the pump creating,you guessed it, more foam.

    Did you notice anything like this? How did you drain the ATF?

    I’ve no idea if simply mixing mineral or semi synthetic fluid with fully synthetic would have any foaming effect, or indeed if this effect happens in gearboxes that are drained and refilled, as I’ve not witnessed it myself. What I have read on here is that problems can and do occur until the whole system is full (not just in the sump measured by the dipstick) and, at least in my view, airlocks or entraining of air has to play a part in that.
     
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  7. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    I didn't notice any foam when i drained the fluid which i did several times used over 30lts of Dex11 the only thing i did noticed when i drained it for the first time was the fluid was a dark silver which worried me a bit:shock:I intend to put more fluid in tomorrow and hope this helps seems the easiest option at the moment and i do have about 12lts of Dex11 left so i am keeping all my appendages crossed BUT as previous how would putting into LOW stop the slipping???
     
  8. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    In the given circumstances putting it in low halves the weight of your truck as far as the gearbox is concerned i imagine
     
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  9. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    I think you may be past the point where putting it in low range would help, but the auto box would have had a far easier time of things driving the truck through the reduction gearing of the low range box. There would have been far less torque needed and therefore less chance of slippage.

    What you’ve just told us is that you’ve already dropped the ATF after your limp home and found it to be silvery. Did you test it with a magnet? It’s probably immaterial anyway as that sounds very much to me like metal in the ATF and an indication that serious damage has occurred to one or more of the clutches.

    I think your best way forward is to contact Karl and get that gearbox on its way.

    Given your first reaction was to cut and run I have to applaud your turnaround and say I think your doing the best thing financially and for the truck. You’ve also learned a lot in the process and taught us a lot too. The old box could well be repairable with new clutches as it will be pretty obvious what parts need changing. Not quite so straightforward would be flushing every last particle of metal from it, which you must do from your cooler circuit when you change the box, or ensuring other parts haven’t been damaged by those metal filings, such as pump and valve block.

    PM Karl you shall. :)
     
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  10. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    Sorry you misunderstood when i first dropped the fluid out it was a dark silvery colour i have not dropped it after this slipping malarky but intend to asap. As far as using a magnet i have a big one on my boat for magnet fishing i thought perhaps if i attach it to the sump of the gearbox next to the drain plug and run it a bit hopefully it will collect a lot of metal debris if any and then detach and drain should take it all out yes wishful thinking again i know :shock:
     
  11. MarkW

    MarkW Well-Known Member I am in morocco

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    Putting it in Low locks the center diff. ( I assume an auto is the same as a manual). So if there’s a problem with center diff, imho drive with it in low could point to a diff problem.

    Did you try it in HL as well?
     
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  12. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    Yes its an automatic yes tried in H and it slipped :?
     
  13. AndyCook

    AndyCook Well-Known Member I am in scotland

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    I wonder if the torque converter behaves differently in low range, could it be locked up in low 1st, so no slippage ?
     
  14. silvercruiser

    silvercruiser Well-Known Member

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    When i had my Collie i dropped the ATF out ( i had no problems its was just part of me wanting all fluids changed) it was a fairly dark red/brown, but never a silver look:screamcat:

    I would drop the oil again and inspect, i think you know its box change time!!!
     
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  15. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    Red/Brown is reasonably normal if a little on the burned/old side. This is the first we’ve heard of the silvery colour which isn’t good. Magnet on base trick, I’d say you’d be wasting your time. Best to change out the box and the coolant pipes for the donor one and change your cooler if that’s what you’re going to do. If not then remove and flush until you’re absolutely sure there’s no trace of metal. How do you do that? The answer is, you can’t. You can never be absolutely certain it’s free of any tiny fragment unless you replace it. Ok, I’ve changed my tune here but it’s what Ford have to do to their diesels when the common rail diesel pump sh1ts itself, this is a hydraulic system and is no different. Besides, getting the gearbox with the pipes must surely be an option at this stage.

    There’s just no point risking it so you have to do it again. You’re kicking yourself half way to next Christmas at the minute, think what it would be like if you had to do it again. Incidentally, with silvery look to the fluid on first draining, this has been happening since before you started so you can stop kicking yourself and start congratulating yourself that you found a problem that was waiting in the wings.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  16. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    Thanks again everyone for all your advice and suggestions its been very encouraging but i really do think my box is a dead un as you say StarCruiser i also think it was damaged before my ownership which harks back to one of the earlier threads about buying blind:oops: hindsight etc etc eh:sad-roulette:
     
  17. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    We pay for our education, in other words we live and learn. It’s often said on here that if the truck is low on rust underneath and all is sound, everything else is fixable. Would you have picked this up in a test drive? Maybe, I think possibly not as you’d have to be familiar with the truck to really know what to feel for.

    At least you are on here and have a route to a used gearbox and a dead straight guy that will get it for you. There’s a route forward. How much would it have cost you to have visited to view this? If you take this into account then it’s probably getting towards the cost of the gearbox. There’s one way to look at it. The main thing as you said in your OP is the rest of the truck is sound, that’s great as collies can have rust issues behind the plastic flares and fairings. Like I say, you’re sorting out it’s problems before they get you. It sounds like you’ve gone through most other stuff so this should complete the picture and bring your cruiser grin back. The sad thing is cars get sold for reasons which are often kept quiet. I once bought a Smart car with a faulty ECU I thought I could fix. It turned out to be a very difficult item to get second hand and after a very long road, full engine rebuild and brand New ECU from Mercedes, it’s now running well but that one advertised fault led to many others and far more spent than the car is worth, so it’s now a toad behind the cruiser for camping in the UK to get some value out of it.
    Like I say, we pay for our education.
     
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  18. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    StarCruiser i agree with what your saying but unfortunately i think i missed out a bit on my education as i bought a Stag blind once and yes got stung as you say we live and learn well some of do:oops:
     
  19. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    To err is to be human. As someone once said.
     
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  20. cbv8

    cbv8 Member I am in england

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    Depending on the cost of a s/h box will determine if my Collie will be staying or going i'm already getting it in the neck by the other half:icon-cry:
     
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