LJ70 Build Thread!

[Ben]

i got deliveries! :happy-wavemulticolor:

front ARB locker to match the rear one!

and the replacement super pro bushes for the rear panhard rod arrived.

i just hope they fit and fix the problem.

 

[Olazz]

Ben if that doesn't finally fix things, maybe its time to trade it for an 80!

 

[Chris]

He'll catch on eventually.

C

 

[Ben]

Ben if that doesn't finally fix things, maybe its time to trade it for an 80!

no chance!

80's are great trucks, especially for expeditions and overlanding.

but there too big and heavy for what i want, and the approach and departure angles arnt exactly great!

will be interesting to see if theres anything at Lincomb that goes better off road than my 70, once the front lockers fitted.

it must be about a ton lighter than a tricked up 80.

 

[Chris]

Well we'll see Ben won't we. I fitted a front locker to LB as you know and I found the increase on a shortie to be quite minimal. There just seems to be something about the longer wheelbase. I'd really like to see LB up against the same spec in a LWB and front ARB. Shorties do have advantages, especially in tight spots, but there are some hazards that the LWB just does better. I think that basically it comes from not having all four wheel in the same hazard all at once.

You are right about the approach and departure angles though. Unless you crop them really short, which I haven't.

Chris

 

[Ben]

Chris, lil blue is a lovely truck, no denying that, but................

it hasnt got a solid front axle, its still IFS so i imagine thats why you found the increase to be quite minimal.

ive owned IFS 4x4's before, and one of the reasons i chose a SWB 70 is because it has a solid front axle.

i agree that some times LWB trucks are better, i find when i lane with my mate in his hi-lux, sometimes he can drive over obstacles easier than me, but more often than not, i find it easier in my SWB than he does in his LWb.

anyway...............back to the build!


so new rear panhard rod bushes!

removed one of my bolts first to check if the metal sleeves are the correct size.

needed to remove the remaining metal bits of the old burnt out bushes.

hacksawed a cut through them.

and tapped them out with a hammer and chisel.

new poly bush pressed in using the woodworking vice.

followed by the metal sleeve.

both sides done.

this is the bolt on the passenger side, that cant be got to with the wheel fitted.

comparing new bushes with old ones.

ideally the panhard rod needs to be 15-20mm longer because of the 2" suspension lift.

was a bit of a bastard to get the holes to line up. ended up using the old panhard rod to leaver the chassis over while i pushed the bolt in.

all fitted.

wheel back on and ready for the test drive.

so i took it for a test drive and..............................








































































still not f*****g fixed!

anyway...........................

i was all ready to leave it for tonight and do some more on my brit pig build, when my mate came round, and i explained the problems im having. we had a good look underneath while the other tunred the steering wheel and i think weve identified the problem!

off to investigate further and see if i cant fix it.

 

[Chas]

we had a good look underneath while the other tunred the steering wheel and i think weve identified the problem!

off to investigate further and see if i cant fix it.

Well . . . . what was it, don't keep us in suspenders

 

[karl webster]

Ben if that doesn't finally fix things, maybe its time to trade it for an 80!

no chance!

80's are great trucks, especially for expeditions and overlanding.

but there too big and heavy for what i want, and the approach and departure angles arnt exactly great!

will be interesting to see if theres anything at Lincomb that goes better off road than my 70, once the front lockers fitted.

If its wet ben i will put money on cuggabug will be better offroad

And it hasnt any lockers

Karl

it must be about a ton lighter than a tricked up 80.

 

[Ben]

all in good time Chas, even got a video to post!

Karl, if cuggabug is the better truck off road in the sticky stuff at Lincomb then thats ok with me!

it made me laugh so much when you brought it to Lincomb in May last year, i remember you saying on the sunday youd put 20 eggs in the radiator and the bloody thing was still leaking!

its the sort of thing Cheech and chong would drive, i love it!

 

[karl webster]

all in good time Chas, even got a video to post!

Karl, if cuggabug is the better truck off road in the sticky stuff at Lincomb then thats ok with me!

it made me laugh so much when you brought it to Lincomb in May last year, i remember you saying on the sunday youd put 20 eggs in the radiator and the bloody thing was still leaking!

its the sort of thing Cheech and chong would drive, i love it!

It was just the tractor tyres that did it mate and not much weight. I was very supprised how good it was.

The egg thing really didn't work. It's still poping like mad

Don't know if it's coming this time or not.

Karl

Karl

 

[Roger Fairclough]

If he cocked up his castor angle, I'll kill him.

Roger

 

[Ben]

If he cocked up his castor angle, I'll kill him.

Roger

right so the problem with the truck..........................

i know this probably sounds crazy but its almost like some one has tampered with my truck in the middle of the night while its been parked on my drive.

the reason i say this is because like ive said a few times now on the last few pages, the truck was driving perfectly and the death wobble had almost completely gone. i drove 60+ miles with my mate and the death wobble only appeared once for a few seconds and then vanished.

i then parked the truck up for a week and didnt drive it, i then fitted the X-brake calliper and cable and got that working, removed the front prop, fitted a new oil seal, and re-fitted the front prop, and changed the rear panhard rod.

so i then come to drive it and find the death wobble is worse than its ever been!

so i believed it must have been something id done/changed, because before it drove fine.

so with my mate turning the steering wheel slowly left to right, this is what i saw (apologies for the poor vid quality, was getting dark and i obviously wasnt holding the camera very still. )

[youtube:34nmsxmn]yRmgQnRM5j8[/youtube:34nmsxmn]

so as can be seen in the vid, the whole bush is moving but not the actual bolt, which appears to stay still.

this is the end of the front panhard rod which has the problem.

came to unbolt it and found the bolts on both end wernt very tight. maybe theyve worked loose due to the extremely bad vibrations/shakes that ive been experiencing. but i am 100% certain they were tight after i fitted them. maybe some one loosened them in the night?

after removing the bolt and pulling the panhard rod down it became apparant that the new polybush doesnt look great.

after pushing the metal sleeve out, i found the polybush damaged underneath where the middle of the metal sleeve sits, not sure how this bit could get damaged.

anyway i tightened both ends up nice and tight. (even used a split pin Roger! )

took it for a test drive and its still got very bad death wobble above about 35mph.

ive got another new bush i can fit, thats not the issue, the issue is why has this happened and how do i stop it destroying another new bush?

when first fitted it was fine, since then ive probably done 200miles at most.

the metal sleeve still feels tight inside the bush, and the bush still feels tight in the panhard rod, so im wondering whether fitting a slightly bigger bolt would help, because the bolt does have a tiny degree of movement inside the metal sleeve.

i did also wonder if the bolt hole(s) on the axle where the panahard rod mounts might have become enlarged slightly, so i could weld some thick washers on, but judging by what i see when the steering wheel is turned, ie. in the video, the bolt doesnt appear to move at all.

im confused and my head hurts after writing that essay.

time for a shower and a beer!

 

[hairyguy4]

my front panhard for a while was equally as bad as that and i experienced no death wobble it does seem as though thats just masking a problem elsewhere

 

[karl webster]

Looking at that vid ben id say that the poly bushes are not strong enough. I personally dont think there should be movement like that.

 

[wobbly]

If the panhard rod is too short, and you have to lever it all together, when you take the leverage off then the pressure at each end will be trying to stretch the rod - this cant happen (although didnt you say one of the rods had twisted?) but the sleeve inside the centre of the bush will be compressing it on one side (the front and rear end respectively at each end of the rod), so your bush wont be round, it will be squashed on one side.

When you first tightened the bolt, it was firm and held the bush in position, but as it has loosened it has allowed the bush to deform. When you remove the rod and check the bush, it has gone back to its circular shape, but is showing damage where it has been compressed.

I think you need to address the issue of rod length (fnarr fnarr), otherwise every time you fit a new bush the same will happen.

The reason it isnt improved when refitted the second time is that once put back and tightened up, it is now already deformed and weakened when under the same outward pulling pressure.

Thats my guess. To be honest, the chances that someone has happened along and randomly slackened off the bolts on the panhard rods is, well, unlikely.

Pete

 

[wobbly]

In brief, you need to extend your rod by 2" before trying out a new bush.

 

[Ben]

thanks for comments and ideas so far.

Pete i think your on to something there.

i had to lever the rear panhard rod over, and that panhard rod needs to be about 20-25mm longer.

but the front one only needs to be 10-15mm longer.

maybe i need to get the grinder and welder out tomorrow.

rear panhard rod has definitely twisted slightly, as it now bolts straight on.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

If you don't do the bolt up tight enough on a panhard rod (or any other bush like this) the sleeve moves, it needs to be clamped tight in the mount rather than be a snug fit on the bolt. Are you guesstimating how tight to do it up or working to a torque figure from the FSM?

 

[Ben]

i didnt use a torque wrench John, as i couldnt get a torque wrench on some of the bolts.

but i did do them all up very tight.

i will have a look in the FSM tomorrow and find out what torque they need doing up to.

 

[Chris]

Ben I have to say that I have been looking at that again and again and I'm no nearer an answer. But I would say that if the tolerance on the PHR bush was so tight that if you had that degree of movement you'd get death wobble, then I'd suggest that all 70's would be suffering that after about 10k miles after leaving the factory. That doesn't look like excessive play to me. Play yes - and clearly something's not right, but in my estimation the wobble is causing that damage, not the bush causing the wobble. The rod is the thing that the vehicle centred over the axle yes? When you put a big lift on, you need to lengthen that to wind the body back over the axles. If you don't you'd have two wheels sticking out of the arches. But I can't see that being the cause of imbalance like your wobble. That is more like some kind of harmonic which reaches critical when you have the wobble. After all, two solid axles, wheels on each end. You can't get that wrong can you. As with many things in the suspension and drive line, they are very heavy and don't show up when you try to wiggle them by hand. I would still be tempted to get it on 4 stands and put it in gear. My only addition would be to try it without the tyres on first.

Seen the other Guys posts. Still not convinced necessarily that the rod being too short will give the wobble. But I'd frankly love to be wrong. It certainly needs to be just the right length that's for sure.

Chris