LJ70 Build Thread!

[Roger Fairclough]

i didnt, but i did notice that it was already full of grease.

just hope its got enough in it.

If the seal is specific to a place i.e. that flange, then usually you find a series of blobs of grease to lube between shaft and seal.

Roger

 

[Ben]

just stuck 20litres of veg oil in the tank and took her for a test drive.

the death wobble is back and worse than ever!

its now undrivable above 30mph, the front wheels shake so violently. its never shaken as bad as it now does

just brought it home, jacked it up and had a good look over everything.

wheel bearings all seem fine, as do all the ball joints, and nothing seems loose.

it drove fine before i took the rear panhard rod off and changed it, so im guessing it must be that!

it just seems strange that the rear panhard rod being twisted would have such an effect on the front wheels.

going to bring some tube home tomorrow and cut and shut the panhard rod, hopefully that will fix the problem.

still no news from super pro regarding the wrong bushes theyve sent me.

oh and the X-ENG hand brake finally appears to be working perfectly, neither the disc or calliper are getting hot after driving, and it holds the vehicle beautifully on very steep hills.

 

[Ben]

i didnt, but i did notice that it was already full of grease.

just hope its got enough in it.

If the seal is specific to a place i.e. that flange, then usually you find a series of blobs of grease to lube between shaft and seal.

Roger

thanks.

doesnt seem to be leaking, so hopefully thats fixed it.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

I don't believe the rear Panhard rod will cause front wheel shake. If the bushes in it are shot, then, at worst, you will get rear wheel wander, similar to a rear wheel puncture.

I suggest you jack up the front axle and support it on stands. Remove the rear propshaft. Run the engine without drive to front axle and check for vibration in the gears. Then engage front wheel drive, but disconnect your hubs. Run the engine through the gears. Check your propshaft is turning. Your front axle internals will also be moving, but not the wheels. Now do it all again with the front hubs locked in.

Please advise us of any vibration through stages 1, 2 and 3.

Roger

 

[wobbly]

Ben

Have you fitted wheel spacers?

Pete

 

[Geo]

Ben just to say I've been reading your build for ages, top work fella, really is looking , and likely going like a beast. What are the next stages?

 

[Chris]

Ben, just by chance, you haven't split your propshaft slip joints have you? In other words, the flanges at each end are aligned perfectly?

I'm with Roger on the PH rod. All that really does is line things up - in simple terms. Being out might make it drive off line but it shouldn't shake. Worth going through the moves suggested above but also check wheel rotation by hand to see if there is any binding anywhere.

Are you going to make the rod adjustable with a threaded section in the middle? Or just a slip on tube. You could slit it and clamp it, welding it only once you were tracked up straight. Bit like a steering arm.

Chris

 

[Ben]

I don't believe the rear Panhard rod will cause front wheel shake. If the bushes in it are shot, then, at worst, you will get rear wheel wander, similar to a rear wheel puncture.

I suggest you jack up the front axle and support it on stands. Remove the rear propshaft. Run the engine without drive to front axle and check for vibration in the gears. Then engage front wheel drive, but disconnect your hubs. Run the engine through the gears. Check your propshaft is turning. Your front axle internals will also be moving, but not the wheels. Now do it all again with the front hubs locked in.

Please advise us of any vibration through stages 1, 2 and 3.

Roger

Thanks Roger.

i know it sounds crazy, that the rear panhard rod would be having this sort of effect on the front axle, but like i said it drove lovely before i swapped the rear panhard rod, so i cant help but feel it must be that.

i got some tube from work today and was all set to cut and shut my panhard rod tonight, but when i unbolted it, the twist has vanished. i can only conclude from this that the panhard rod has actually twisted slightly, and now bolts on perfectly which is strange.

anyway...................super pro have said they are sending me another set of bushes out, and going on the product code there actually for a KZJ73 rear panhard rod.

once there here, i will get them fitted, and if they havnt fixed the problem, i will do what you have suggested and report back with what i find.

one thought i did have was, ive tightened the panhard rod bolts up as tight as i can. well what if ive tightened them too much, and the panhard rod wont physically turn/pivot? that would surely mess the handling up.

obviously with super pro bushes this isnt an issue, due to the fact the metal sleeve in the centre of the bush isnt fixed to the surrounding rubber/poly. so it shouldnt matter how much i do the super pro bushes up, within reason, the panhard rod should still pivot.

hope that makes some sort of sense?

Ben

Have you fitted wheel spacers?

Pete

no Pete. im not a fan of them, hence why ive bought 2 sets of wheels for my 2 sets of tyres.

1 set is 15" x 10J with a -38mm off set, and the other set is 16" x 8J with a -32mm off set. so no need for spacers.

Ben just to say I've been reading your build for ages, top work fella, really is looking , and likely going like a beast. What are the next stages?

Thanks Geo.

next stage is front ARB locker.

now the X-ENG handbrake seems to be working properly, i can finally get my gearbox/transferbox guard made.

then theres a roof rack to make, rear disc brake conversion, internal roll cage, with removable mesh guard behind the front seats.

id like some bigger aggressive tyres, but i dont really need them, i just want them.

EDIT. just seen Chris's post.

i did unbolt the front prop from the transferbox, and then i bolted it back on. the only thing i didnt do, but should have, is the toyota workshop manual says to put matchmarks on both flanges, before unbolting them, so that when the 2 are bolted back together, there bolted back together in the same place.

Like ive said a few times now, the death wobble had near enough vanished completely. before parking it up and replacing the oil seal on the output on the front prop, fixing the X-ENG brake, and swapping the rear panhard rod, i drove 60miles and it was fine.

so i did those few jobs and now it is undrivable above 30mph. and i mean undrivable.

when the front wheels start shaking now it is so violent that it feels like one of the wheels will come off if i dont slow down and stop at once.

 

[Chris]

Ben, match marks really only matter if you split the prop. The four holes in the end of the dive flanges are equally spaced, moving it on one hole shouldn't make any difference. But changing the phase of the prop by taking it apart will make a huge difference.

So doesn't sound like that.

Chris

 

[Ben]

thanks.

no only unbolted it.

i wanted to get a video to show the front wheel shake, but the truth is once it starts, i have to put the brakes on and stop immediately, it is really really bad.

 

[Roger Fairclough]

The prop-shafts are balanced as individual units. The output shafts from the t/box are machined to run true and they have recesses to accurately centre the props. The w/shop manual asks you to identify the position of the props relative to the flanges, but in reality, this is not necessary, as the props and flanges will mate up whatever stud/bolt combo you use.

But there is a problem.

From memory, when you fitted the X-Brake, the disc goes between the flange on the t/box and the flange on the prop-shaft. I machined a distance piece to accurately locate flange/flange for when I tried the X-Brake. As you don't have this, the somewhat crude bolt arrangement that X-Engineering use will allow a degree of out of true running and imbalance.

This is one possibility.

Another is the oddity that the Panhard rod has magically centred itself. This maybe because the new rubbers have been damaged, allowing a degree of float. Did you tighten the bolts after the wheels were back on the ground?

I would also check that you are not running in 4 wheel drive on the road. This will cause wind up and will be noticeable as a vibration that comes and goes as the wheels fight for traction.

As has been pointed out, the prop-shafts need to be aligned at the slip joint. This needs checking.

If you take the front prop off, disconnect the hubs and then drive the car and the vibration goes, it proves the problem is front axle and propshaft. Do the same at the back, locking in 4 wheel drive. Is there an improvement?

Roger

 

[Ben]

thanks Roger.

i think we can rule out the X-brake being the problem, in that the disc has been between the output flange and prop for ages, and this new really bad death wobble has only just started?

the trouble with the panhard rod is i cant get a socket into tighten the nut, as the spring is in the way, so have to use a spanner, and this is only possible with the wheel removed.

so no it wasnt tightened with the wheels on the ground.

definitely not in 4wd and the hubs are both unlocked. i even checked every wheel nut was tight tonight, as i felt that paranoid about a wheel coming off.

you mention:- As has been pointed out, the prop-shafts need to be aligned at the slip joint. This needs checking.


im sorry but i dont quite understand, what needs checking and how?

your suggestion of removing front prop and checking, and then removing the rear and checking, will be done, after ive tried the new panhard rod bushes, when they arrive.

hurry up superpro.

 

[wobbly]

Ben

How about sticking the old panhard rod back on and seeing if the problem goes away, either way it confirms whether the panhard rod is at fault.

Pete

 

[Ben]

Ben

How about sticking the old panhard rod back on and seeing if the problem goes away, either way it confirms whether the panhard rod is at fault.

Pete

wish i could Pete, but..........................i burnt the old bushes out.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13981&start=40

 

[Rob]

Have you checked that TC output flange is seated correctly?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

i think we can rule out the X-brake being the problem, in that the disc has been between the output flange and prop for ages, and this new really bad death wobble has only just started?

If the prop has been off and back on it will be in a different position this time and that new position might be much worse / more offset from centre than how it was before.

 

[Ben]

i know what your saying about the prop, but the rear prop hasnt been off for ages.

its only the front one thats been off, and the truck has only been run in 2wd lately, so the front prop shouldnt be turning?

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Fair enough Ben, thought Roger was onto something there

 

[Roger Fairclough]

thanks Roger.

i think we can rule out the X-brake being the problem, in that the disc has been between the output flange and prop for ages, and this new really bad death wobble has only just started?

the trouble with the panhard rod is i cant get a socket into tighten the nut, as the spring is in the way, so have to use a spanner, and this is only possible with the wheel removed.

so no it wasnt tightened with the wheels on the ground.

definitely not in 4wd and the hubs are both unlocked. i even checked every wheel nut was tight tonight, as i felt that paranoid about a wheel coming off.

you mention:- As has been pointed out, the prop-shafts need to be aligned at the slip joint. This needs checking.


im sorry but i dont quite understand, what needs checking and how?

your suggestion of removing front prop and checking, and then removing the rear and checking, will be done, after ive tried the new panhard rod bushes, when they arrive.

hurry up superpro.

A constant velocity joint is just that, the output side of the joint is, speed wise, exactly matched to the input side. A universal joint, as found on normal prop-shafts, is not constant. As the input side rotates at a constant speed, the output side speeds up and slows down. One turn on the input side equals one turn on the output side, but it is not constant. By phasing this speeding up/slowing down, any serious vibration problems are negated. To check on your props., get underneath and look at each U/J on each shaft. Turn the shaft until you are looking end on at the input yoke. The output yoke must appear the same. I can demonstrate this for you on my motor when you bring your diff. next Saturday.

Roger

 

[Ben]

thanks guys.

Ben, just by chance, you haven't split your propshaft slip joints have you? In other words, the flanges at each end are aligned perfectly?

I'm with Roger on the PH rod. All that really does is line things up - in simple terms. Being out might make it drive off line but it shouldn't shake. Worth going through the moves suggested above but also check wheel rotation by hand to see if there is any binding anywhere.

Are you going to make the rod adjustable with a threaded section in the middle? Or just a slip on tube. You could slit it and clamp it, welding it only once you were tracked up straight. Bit like a steering arm.

Chris

was going to cut the end off the panhard rod and then bolt both pieces back onto the vehicle, and then use a paint pen to mark a line, showing the position the end needed to be re-welded onto the bar.

then remove both bits from the vehicle, slip the piece of tube down over the panhard rod and weld everything up. was also going to drill a load of holes in the tube, and then weld the tube to the panhard rod aswell, like i did with my reinforced steering bar.

i did wonder if an 80 one would have fitted. would have been a lot easier.

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