Modified cars banned?

[Shayne]

Yes I agree Frank. There was a case a while back where someone had badly modified a Land Rover which caused it to veer into a river and I think the modifier and has children drowned I definitely remember the incident but not all the details, maybe another member can.

IIRC and i might not , the guy was driving a defender with a fake classic i.d . I remember thinking he didn't get battered for the modifications but rather because his whole truck put two fingers up at establishment rules . It was a tragedy for sure but i remember searching in vain for mention of a specific component failure . His truck was like Trigger's brush and illegal in every sense .

 

[Pumpy]

I don't know Clive, but there must be a threshold.

I do recall being asked by an insurer to list all the modifications on my track car and state the qualifications that the installer held. I did the work myself and wrote to them listing my qualifications from GCSE, to 2 university course and then subsequent professional qualifications. That seemed to do the trick, despite no of them being in car mechanics

It works on a points system, the B IVA test (Once it fails because it doesn't have enough points - usually because of a chassis shortening job in 4x4 world) costs £499, has to meet rigorous standards that would leave your head spinning (seach on the hotrod/customised forums for the headache threads) and you end up with a 'Q' reg plate.

gov site explaining points system https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles

 

[Chas]

That seemed to do the trick, despite no of them being in car mechanics

That doesn't surprise me, I've always believed university education doesn't always equate with knowledge, it just indicates a higher level of education. One of the chaps I went to Croatia with was a research astrophysicist, obviously intelligent but one of the most stupid people I've ever met.

 

[Dave2000]

Now come on, ...........what's al the fuss about? It's the NORM here! And just to throw a little extra fuel on the fire, the Germans (TUV) run the inspection's here in Murcia!!

Now I am not going to say "didn't I warn people FIVE years ago?", Oh alright, I DID!

regards

Dave

 

[MarkW]

That doesn't surprise me, I've always believed university education doesn't always equate with knowledge, it just indicates a higher level of education. One of the chaps I went to Croatia with was a research astrophysicist, obviously intelligent but one of the most stupid people I've ever met.

Two different things Chas, education and knowledge

Education teaches you that a tomato is a fruit, knowledge that you don't put it in a fruit salad.

Here knowledge would be not to believe everything found in a tabloid or the internet as truth, I found a site the other which over several pages and thousands of words, claimed the dinosaurs built the pyamids

 

[Dave2000]

I found a site the other which over several pages and thousands of words, claimed the dinosaurs built the pyamids

You mean that was a lie?

regards

Dave

 

[Shayne]

Now come on, ...........what's al the fuss about? It's the NORM here! And just to throw a little extra fuel on the fire, the Germans (TUV) run the inspection's here in Murcia!!

Now I am not going to say "didn't I warn people FIVE years ago?", Oh alright, I DID!

regards

Dave

May i ask Dave , your a qualified mechanic and you used to compete in off road competitions (albeit with a lamedrover) yes ? so how come your Landcruiser is not modified ?

 

[Chas]

"Two different things Chas, education and knowledge"
That's more or less what I said.

"Education teaches you that a tomato is a fruit, knowledge that you don't put it in a fruit salad"
I would say common sense that you don't put it in a fruit salad.

dinosaurs built the pyramids? who's to say they didn't. Mind you it would have been difficult for them with those short arms.

The Earth is flat, Santa does exist and Elvis lives.

 

[Dave2000]

May i ask Dave , your a qualified mechanic and you used to compete in off road competitions (albeit with a lamedrover) yes ? so how come your Landcruiser is not modified ?

I purchased the Discovery as a 'run around' before I moved here about ten years back? It was a great motor, so once I was more or less settled here, I returned to the UK in the LR and purchased EVERYTHING that could make the LR bullet proof for the comps, air lockers, all HD running gear( CV's, axles, guards, sliders ect), wheel tyres, winch, bumpers, blah, blah. Spent a small fortune and returned to Spain, I took it to the MOT station when it was due for the 6 monthly inspection and it passed, but I got a warning not to return in six months with 'those' wheels, they were too big and needed an engineers report if I wanted them to stay on. I put a set of stock wheels on it, looked weird with the lift and it passed next time around. Every six months I simply swapped the wheels and it passed. After getting injured I had to sell it so no more comps. Found a buyer in Alicante, and due to the short (6 months) inspection, he asked I get it inspected the day before he picked it up, I did and it passed, and I had now owned the car for four years so that made EIGHT inspections with no issues bar a cracked mirror, it broke on the way up the station as I was cleaning it! I did get a warning that the snorkel had to be added to the paperwork, but it passed and I sold it to the guy and reminded him about the snorkel. Six months later he contacted me and told me the car had failed the inspection in is province on pretty much everything that was not standard! This was because it was in a different Province and it not a level playing field, and they appeared to be keen to apply new rules from 'above'? I cannot confirm it was anything to do with the EU but still. I gave the new owner a portfolio with every receipt for all the parts so I am assuming he made someone's palm slippery to get it passed? And I heard no more, now that was around 6 years ago, and the test is getting harder to pass almost by the day, they pick up ANYTHING not OE or not appearing to be OE, I have even had the OE side steps on the 80 queried, they agreed to pass them when an old sales picture was presented.

So, now being aware that you can present a 'project' just the once (which will save a lot of money), I decided to collect all the parts and do it all at once, so money gets saved for the suspension and along comes a full length custom built roof rack, so I bought it, more money saved and then there is this RTT, and then not an inconsiderable amount of money on my replacement gearbox and transfer, and my refurbished wheels and....and .......

And just when I thought I was going to 'go for it' a couple of weeks back I dropped some (to me) serious cash on a twin axle caravan, with all the toys GSH, AC, full shower, proper toilet, double bed, blah blah

The LC will get done, but as I pointed out in another thread it CAN be done but it is not straightforward or cheap as an engineer is involved, and anyway.....people keep selling me 'stuff'.

So there ya go Shayne, the lifestyle I lead is somewhat.........well......fluid.

regards

Dave

 

[Shayne]

I guess the buyers province is a little more advanced in "community conformity" than yours then , might be worth talking to the guy again before you buy any more bits , you know just to be sure he hasn't been told to remove anything that's not standard .

 

[Dave2000]

TBH Shayne I think Murcia is catching up real quick, and I think part of the problem is that some of the provinces want to remove themselves from under the Spanish umbrella and want independence, the trouble is will they want to be part of the EU so no one is placing any bets at the moment, so for the moment they just exercise their own twist on legal positions? When I did my 80's 'matriculation, I was told by the Murcia inspector it may need to go through a European conformity test and pay the 1000.00 euros for the privilege on top of the usual 200 euro fee plus import duties. I took it about 26 miles in another direction (Almeria province) and it was all done for 200 euros with the conformity check. But, now my car is legal in one province and yet illegal in another but I cannot be prosecuted for it, as no one really understands the complex and forever changing laws here, I would be checked and just moved on.

Another example, if someone lives in Almeria province and needs to renew their driving licence, they need to have a health check, typical minor medical including eye check for which you would pay about 60 euro. The nearest town with the correct medical facilities is just across the border (Murcia province) You then apply for your licence, only to be told your medical is not recognised by Almeria province, go figure?

regards

Dave

 

[Shayne]

That's why i suggested you phone the guy who bought your Landrover Dave . The difference is only how local jurisdictions choose how to interpret the same set of rules .

 

[Dave2000]

That's why i suggested you phone the guy who bought your Landrover Dave . The difference is only how local jurisdictions choose how to interpret the same set of rules .

Unfortunately he is in another province, and where he is they are very strict. As I mentioned earlier, the LR was fine here in Murcia but Alicante had a whole different level of scrutiny (read absolute bastards) of non original vehicles. You are bang on about interpreting the legislation differently, and herein lies the problem, it is simply not a level playing field. When I do it I will do it the once, TBH I am happy without a snorkel, would love to have a winch, and a small lift, just a couple of inches would be fine (where have I heard that before?), so no hurry.

I think I will finish off the other bit's and pieces I have on the LC, waiting on parts slows the process. I also need some welding done on the 'ol girl', I will see how money goes over the summer and may shoot for later this year or early next, other than that, thanks for trawling through my 'comprehensive' (rambling) nature of posting.

Regards

Dave

 

[Shayne]

Your comprehensive rambling only confirms what i can see with one eye is coming to Britain , your already living it and i fear your view that Murcia is catching up with Alicante is based on the assumption that the rules there have not progressed further .

 

[Dave2000]

Your comprehensive rambling only confirms what i can see with one eye is coming to Britain , your already living it and i fear your view that Murcia is catching up with Alicante is based on the assumption that the rules there have not progressed further .

Correct mate, a sidelight bulb not working became a 'Defectos Gravis' or 'serious defect' last year. The engineers in Alicante will make plenty of money as will anybody involved with modifications (including the government), for presenting a 'project' except of course the owner. Last September saw the introduction of the ABS light inspection (but not the 'forced activation' which has been put on the back burner for unknown reasons? And the 'any one bulb out rule' which is an automatic fail is here but, I have not heard of anyone actually failing due to this yet.

Alicante does have a reputation for being overly 'keen' with tests and it is a difficult to see how the average 'Joe' can get around this. One advantage in the UK is the fact that there are so many MOT test stations, and this gives owners the opportunity to 'get to know' or 'chat up' the inspector , here that is pretty much impossible with perhaps 2 - 3 few stations per PROVINCE. A huge workshop with a dozen different testers that change shifts with another different dozen, along with four inspection lanes, makes it very difficult for owners to shall we say 'influence' the outcome of the test. Taking between 1 and say 3 cars a week for tests means I have indeed have got to know them, and they know the car being presented will have been 'pre ITV inspected' by me, and I never take a vehicle there with something which is an obvious fail however, if I have seen the front brake pads are very low, or perhaps the dust/grease guards on a track rod end are perished, I tell them. I advise I have ordered the parts (and I would have) and am waiting for delivery, the car will be passed (two or three fails in ten years, one my own LR ), and TBH the odd number plate bulb that has blown 'en route' has also been allowed through. In the UK we are so used to the average tester using his judgement, as to whether your car passes or not, and their (the inspectors) ability to separate a serious defect from something like a blown bulb, whereas here it will invariably be a fail. There will always be times when a decision has to be made 'pass or fail' but that 'judgement' skill is being eroded and replaced with a 'does it work or not' mentality. Even the date of manufacturer on the tyres are carefully scrutinised, and they have to be the same brand and same model across the axle, a BFG A/T tyre on one side of the axle and a BFG A/T 2 on the other side WILL fail, the tread pattern must match across the axle. This thread has drifted from modified cars to non modified, and for good reason IMO, if you cannot get a typical standard car though a test with a blocked screen washer nozzle (coming soon), then you can bet your life your modified vehicle is going to get extra scrutiny. I did take my LC though for the test before Christmas, and I had made two modifications prior to this date, a smaller number plate, fits between the cooling vents in the bumper 'so as not to obstruct them', and the American side lights which have the amber side markers. Nothing was said, TBH I doubt they were even considered this goes back to my conclusion in another thread that, if it looks standard then it may get overlooked.

regards

Dave

 

[frank rabbets]

Dave what a relief for you to live in a country with so many regulations for your protection. Safe as houses..............oh apart from all those new ones falling down lol.

 

[Ben]

All very interesting!

How come you went to amber side lights Dave?

I've always thought it makes the American 80's look a bit dated compared to the clear ones the rest of the world got.

 

[Paddler Ed]

Spain sounds like Australia in some aspects; a Federation of states/provinces/territories that all get given the same rule book and then decide to write their own that roughly follow the same rules (give or take)... and then Spain suffers from the problem of the EU above that....

For example:
The ADR rules cover Australian vehicle standards
BUT NSW interpret them one way (and we end up with annual inspections), QLD another (inspection when it transfers ownership and moves onto that rego; also differences in allowed lifts etc - even those are specified in the ADR's), VIC another set, and WA just skip the inspection stage altogether... and that's before you have the cost differences in rego and compulsory insurance inclusion/exclusion... Oh and in many cases, an engineers certificate won't transfer between states... which is needed if the modification is outside the accepted range.

Now this federal type system is a whole world of chaos - just look at tuition fees in the UK with the devolved parliaments....

Good luck!

 

[Rodger]

I've followed Dave's posts with interest and maybe it helps to explain that different States within a Province operate (roughly) to the rules of that Province so in the example that Dave gave re his LR he's in Murcia, which is in the Region of Murcia and the guy who bought was in Alicante which is in the Valencian Community. The Valencian Community does have some very archaic laws particularly relating to property. Whereas I live in the State of Granada which is in the Province of Andalucia, as is Almeria (State and city), so not only have I been able to get my 40 registered in Almeria (a different state to where I live) but also get my licence exchanged in Almeria as well including a medical for 27 euros because both States are within the same Province.

Our truck is obviously pre-1985 and that year is the point where Eurpean VIN numbers were unified to 17 digits. Anything prior to that has the authorities completely flummoxed, however we were able to get our very modified truck registered although they wouldn't give me an 'antique' designation. It did take 2 years but was legally able to used on the road while the process took its course. Because we were importing the truck and it is our only vehicle and we had owned it for more than a year, they were prepared to accept the modifications providing (1)we declared in front of the British Consul that it was our only vehicle (2) obtained letters from the UK MOT engineer/station that the truck was legal in the UK (3) had everything officially translated and certified.
So how modified is it.... 1977 40 series with 60 series engine, gearbox, transfer box, power steering & box, axles and rims. It also has a full rollcage, wheel arch flares, rear lights mounted in a non-standard position, snorkel plus 2.5 inch lift and P38 coils instead of leaf springs on the front. They did need me to fit a hi-intensity rear light and a reversing light and move the rear number plate to the left hand side of the tailgate. Even with all this the truck is totally legal and registered in Spain. We always use the same test station for the ITV and now have a local friend, a regular at the station who has 23 historic cars, and he comes with us - to smooth the way!
Recently we have been considering fitting a winch but the grief (and cost) of getting the truck's fiche technica (the vehicle's passport, in effect) altered means that we will just fit the Aussie Lokkas and forget the winch... they can't see the Lokkas!
And yes it can be frustrating at various times when getting it registered but it's all about learning what they are looking for i.e. for estate shaped vehicles make sure the rear seats are in otherwise they will want to convert it to a 'commercial'.
It cost 1200 euros to get the registration and having worked our way through the process I reckon you could get any pre-85 vehicle registered however modified.

Regards,

 

[clivehorridge]

In Romania there's an equivalent to the "fiche technical" (the vehicle's passport, in effect) and its very strictly in accordance with the manufacturer's choice of "components" at the time of registration.

Might have mentioned this before, but my 80 was registered with 7" wide standard steel rims and 235/70/16 tyres. I've fitted 10" wide rims and 305/70/16 tyres. Sharp intake of breath, highly illegal on the road, I can be locked up and the truck confiscated for that!! Incredible.

And by the same token, the police car that stopped me had one headlight out and a brake light not working.