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The people have spoken

goodoldboy said:
Don't forget the huge financial benefits that MPs gain during & after their time in office.if they had thought out this,with our interests in mind they wouldn't have called a referendum that they thought they couldn't loose to sort out a internal row in the Tory party.
Once again some of those who support brexit are wallowing in victimhood , trying to blame the EU for this mess.
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Most of those MPs protect the EU because that will provide the gravy train for them once they have finished in UK politics. Witness the likes of Kinnock. The EU has rich pickings for failed politicians. It is a protectionist organisation that functions principally for the financial benefit of those that 'work' there. It's a lucrative private members club for the old boy network.
I would suggest it is largely the EUs fault. They have created the monster after all, and they are the ones determined to make leaving as damaging and difficult as possible in order to deter others from leaving the club. They are delibertaely obstructing the leave process and placing obstacles in place that could be overcome if only they were willing.
There is a widespread dissatisfaction with the EU around Europe and countries such as Italy and Greece are watching with baited breath to see how this is going to turn out. The EU know this and so will do everything they can to deter others from leaving. As has been the case right through this, it smacks of an abusive relationship. If this was a domestic relationship, the EU would be up in front of social services!!
Have to say wallowing in victimhood seems to be more of a remain characteristic, most leavers (and a good few remainers) just want to get on with it. All the bleating about not liking the first result so wanting to try and get the one they want by having another vote, the abusive rhetoric and accusations about those that voted leave, the attempts to remove the democratic process, etc etc.
Whichever way it goes, delaying for even longer is just going to increase the damage.
Hope you don't find all that not agreeing with you too 'out of order'!
 
Sorry but I have to disagree, all of the bleating, moaning and abusive comments are coming from the leave side.

Just looking at my social media feeds the only people posting anything negative are leave supporters, all my contacts who voted to stay don't post anything about Brexit. It may only be a small sample group but its very noticeable.
 
MarkW said:
Sorry but I have to disagree, all of the bleating, moaning and abusive comments are coming from the leave side.

Just looking at my social media feeds the only people posting anything negative are leave supporters, all my contacts who voted to stay don't post anything about Brexit. It may only be a small sample group but its very noticeable.
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I find the complete reverse. I guess it all depends what your exposed to, or more importantly your own perceptions.
 
I think that there may be some truth in this. Given that there was a vote and the outcome was to leave, the remain campaign doesn't really have much left to say; there's no point campaigning anymore. So that sort of leaves the 'leave' voters to chip in and say how they'd like to leave. Not much point asking a 'remainer' as all you get is a punch in the mouth.

Yes there is a percentage of remainers shouting 'surely it was the best of three wasn't it?' but I guess most are just resigned to the fact that they lost to a bunch if ignorant single issue retards.

Oooh did I say that out loud?

My F.I.L voted leave because he wanted to stop all those people coming from Africa -- no, seriously he did And my M.I.L voted leave so that we could make our own laws. I asked to name 2 laws she'd see repealed once we've left. She couldn't name one!

It's a bit of a mess isn't it.

Frank Field said some wise words last week. He said something along the lines of the result being an utter shock to most MPs who thought that their easy life would continue uninterrupted and since the vote have been trying to find ways to either reverse the decision or reduce its impact upon THEMSELVES.
 
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moggy1968 said:
That figures
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And why shouldn't it? most everybody's friends are usually like minded people so it follows they would probably have similar opinions moggy.
 
Chris said:
Yes there is a percentage of remainers shouting 'surely it was the best of three wasn't it?' but I guess most are just resigned to the fact that they lost to a bunch if ignorant single issue retards.

Oooh did I say that out loud?
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Yes you did Chris, and we all heard! Maybe as a moderator impartiality should be the thing, you know just like Bercow.
 
Chas said:
And why shouldn't it? most everybody's friends are usually like minded people so it follows they would probably have similar opinions moggy.
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Ish, people with similar opinions will have similar perceptions. ONe of the unfortunate things about this issue is that it has caused a lot of division and friction amongst friends and relatives, because they aren't like minded on this particular subject.
 
Chris said:
Yes there is a percentage of remainers shouting 'surely it was the best of three wasn't it?' but I guess most are just resigned to the fact that they lost to a bunch if ignorant single issue retards.

.
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I think you just proved the point right there.
 
OUT! fuck off no deal , and if in your absolute blind arrogance you don't want to trade with the worlds 5th biggest economy then so be it , good luck with DEMANDING (for that's what dictators do) the other 27 conquered countries bankrupt their populations to pay for your arrogance .
 
I'm no economist, but I can see that this is probably more a question of practicality over desire. Currently we're still in the EU and I'm guessing not going to get trade deals until we have left. The chances of that going smoothly are about the same as completing and moving house, getting the money transferred and the keys handed over on a Friday afternoon. Ken Clarke was saying he'd spent 20 years trying to get the US and China into a trade deal position and openly admitted failure.

It's a bit like people saying 'Oh I don't know why they can't just get on with it and leave' It's a wee bit more complex than that.

Shayne
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to trade with us. But I can imagine it being difficult until we have mechanisms set up.

I was talking to the M.I.L about fishing, territorial waters and all that. In this I pointed out that some of our biggest customers were in the EU. Her solution? Everyone will just eat more fish here in the UK. Well that's sorted then!
 
Chris said:
I'm no economist, but I can see that this is probably more a question of practicality over desire. Currently we're still in the EU and I'm guessing not going to get trade deals until we have left. The chances of that going smoothly are about the same as completing and moving house, getting the money transferred and the keys handed over on a Friday afternoon. Ken Clarke was saying he'd spent 20 years trying to get the US and China into a trade deal position and openly admitted failure.

It's a bit like people saying 'Oh I don't know why they can't just get on with it and leave' It's a wee bit more complex than that.

Shayne
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to trade with us. But I can imagine it being difficult until we have mechanisms set up.

I was talking to the M.I.L about fishing, territorial waters and all that. In this I pointed out that some of our biggest customers were in the EU. Her solution? Everyone will just eat more fish here in the UK. Well that's sorted then!
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The thing is Chris how long are we going to live in a state of suspended animation for these mechanisms to be set up? The lack of clarity is very damaging and we need to just get on with it and then sort out the mess. The government have had over 2 years to prepare for this, and manifestly and arrogantly failed, now they’re in the shit and flapping, but prolonging the pain will only make it worse. I can’t see seeking a further period of time to piss about will solve anything, when they’ve achieved so little in the 2+ years they’ve had, except increasing the uncertainty and damage.
 
I know what i'm voting for Chris with eyes wide open knowing there can only be a negative outcome - for everyone regardless of nationality or location .

I'm tired of hearing this is a one sided negotiation , and i'm tired of the fact that nobody , not a single one of our elected representatives have any interest or faith at all in the country itself .

The EU is failing in just about every respect , its using ideological fantasy as a vehicle to global power for which they are not fit when it suppresses the very people they are supposed to represent .

Out with no deal is the hypothetical equivalent of an atomic bomb detonating right in the centre of the European council , if that don't put everyone on the same page asking "how do we fix this" then nothing will .

When there's a will there's a way , but if there's no will ............................

On a global scale we are undoubtedly stronger together , but if we are bound by shackles and chains we can only continue in the direction that brought us to this in the first place .
 
Shayne said:
you don't want to trade with the worlds 5th biggest economy then so be it , good luck with DEMANDING
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Talk about blind arrogance.Most of the UK economy is consumption - folks buying shit they don't need with money they've borrowed.International finance - money laundering in other words makes up most of the rest with what we grow & screw together counting for a fairly small part.Now here's the rub.the UK car industry relies on the customs union to make profit & sell its products in the worlds biggest trading block.What is it that the UK produces that the rest of the world can't do without?
 
I think that chap is being a little too hard on himself. Actually on second thoughts...

I really like this fella. I'd vote to put him in charge actually.

Without raking over the whole bloody thing again I'd make the point that the ballot was binary. Stay or leave. Theresa May maintains that people voted for sovereignty, laws, immigration etc etc.

Not they didn't. They voted to leave. That's it, nothing else. Just that one decision. Now WHY they voted that way was their personal choice. But I didn't see any additional boxes on the ballot paper that said if voting leave, please tick your top 5 reasons from the list.

I know someone who voted leave because they said the UK government didn't do enough to support the armed forces! Right or wrong, how was that a truly valid decision to vote leave? Frank Field was right. No one in 'that place' ever thought that the vote would go this way and consequently put absolutely no thinking whatsoever into the way the referendum was held. It was only there to tick a box following a manifesto commitment.

Now that might not have changed the outcome of the vote, but it sure as hell might have prevented some of the mess we're in now. Has anyone estimated what this has cost us all so far? No matter what deals might get pulled out of the hat in the final analysis, I can't see anything short or medium term were we all stand around with a pint saying, well that really did make a fantastic difference to us all. So glad that half the population voted leave.
I was never for staying. I was always against the inevitable turmoil of leaving.
 
I wonder if they were coerced or bribed or both "just until the little englanders accept they have no control over their future"
 
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