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The people have spoken

frank rabbets said:
Parliament today are debating the criteria on immigration. This shows the whole farce of the process and how impossible Brexit is. This should have been done before the referendum not after.
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Although before the referendum the likes of Hannan and Farage were saying no one is talking about leaving the single market. So we wouldn't need to.
 
Here's a migration scenario that would have affected me 12 years ago.

I worked in outdoor activity (hence the paddler ed user name) as a canoe guide on the Ardeche for the one of the UK travel companies.

As the UK was in the EU, my qualifications were transferable to working in France (albeit for a UK company). Outside the EU, this would not be the case... nor would the guys be able to be based there for 6 months of the year.

This will also hit the ski companies in the same way - that was a bigger uphill battle for the recognition of qualifications... see this piece from 2001 on it https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/skiing/ski-instructors-you-put-your-left-knee-in-5366041.html
 
moggy1968 said:
TBH Mark, I've had enough of your shit, you're just trolling.
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Moggy you're out of order.No one here has trooled you & Mark Rob & myself , whilst being a bit sarky have respectfully tried to understand your point of view & asked you to clarify some of the contradictions.You say that immigration has no link to crime but post a link to a story about a Polish Paedophile who raped & murdered a 12 year old & you want stricter border controls to stop foreign criminals coming in.I disagree with much of what Shayne has to say on this subject but I'm enjoying debating with him & can actually agree with some of what he says.If you don't think this is the right place to debate this just keep out of it.
 
Shayne said:
unachievable save the planet bullshit rules .
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Yep 1+ on that one mate.Pollution is a serious problem in cities but the response of the car manufacturers has been to produce expensive & fragile engines and then cheat the tests.The EU was just following the golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rule - but the UK based Manufacturers would have done the same if we were outside & their lackeys in Westminster would have pushed it through.
 
In my opinion a great deal of the toxic and divisive atmosphere that's raised its ugly head in the aftermath of the referendum could have been avoided by leave voters being gracious winners and not aggressively rubbing people's noses in it.

A little more respect shown when half the population felt utterly terrible in the following days may have gone a long way to help heal divisions in the last 2.5 years.

Instead, the way many leave voters behaved in the immediate aftermath sowed an unfortunate seed, and we're all still living through it.

None of this is backed up with any form of statistical analysis, just a humble opinion.

Owen
 
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goodoldboy said:
Moggy you're out of order.No one here has trooled you & Mark Rob & myself , whilst being a bit sarky have respectfully tried to understand your point of view & asked you to clarify some of the contradictions.You say that immigration has no link to crime but post a link to a story about a Polish Paedophile who raped & murdered a 12 year old & you want stricter border controls to stop foreign criminals coming in.I disagree with much of what Shayne has to say on this subject but I'm enjoying debating with him & can actually agree with some of what he says.If you don't think this is the right place to debate this just keep out of it.
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I’m not out if order at all, he was pushing for a rise and he got one.
There was no respect there at all. Since when has sarcasm been respectful.
Read my post properly, there is no contradiction.
There was no attempt to understand an alternative POV, you can’t understand an alternative POV when you don’t even bother to listen to it and deliberately misinterpret what’s written, misrepresent what someone has said, attribute statements to them that they haven’t said and antagonise someone. And that is trolling.
If you want to let convicted criminals in your a carry on, personally I don’t.
It’s really really simple. At the moment there are effectively no border controls, if we have some kind of visa system them checks can be made at the time of application, but and it’s a big but, you need a robust and efficient system to do that. Personally I think people with serious criminal convictions should have their passport removed, but that would be against their human rights under the EU rules wouldn’t it!
 
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pyemaster said:
In my opinion a great deal of the toxic and divisive atmosphere that's raised its ugly head in the aftermath of the referendum could have been avoided by leave voters being gracious winners and not aggressively rubbing people's noses in it.

A little more respect shown when half the population felt utterly terrible in the following days may have gone a long way to help heal divisions in the last 2.5 years.

Instead, the way many leave voters behaved in the immediate aftermath sowed an unfortunate seed, and we're all still living through it.

None of this is backed up with any form of statistical analysis, just a humble opinion.

Owen
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An interesting POV given the behaviour I’ve seen from remainers. Just my humble opinion
 
Bob said:
Shayne, I never mentioned the idea of United Ireland as that's not on the table, nor would it be any kind of solution. As for the fact that's it's sectarian hatred, that's the most bitter kind...

Should any attempt be made to re introduce a hard border, it will cause violent protest at best
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So rather ironic, its often said by europhiles that a united europe means a peaceful europe. Yet they are willing to risk re lighting the fires of an age old conflict they probable little understand, to suit there own means..
 
chapel gate said:
So rather ironic, its often said by europhiles that a united europe means a peaceful europe. Yet they are willing to risk re lighting the fires of an age old conflict they probable little understand, to suit there own means..
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I'm not sure that the pro-EU brigade want to risk anything though. They don't want to leave, so there would be no risk to the border. The EU and the UK government have agreed a solution where the Irish border stays open. It looks very likely that the UK parliament will reject that, as they have every right to because parliament is sovereign.

The EU could break its customs union and allow in goods from the UK that potentially do not meet EU standards. Or the UK could place Northern Ireland in the customs union, but Arlene and chums really don't want that and they still seem to have some influence. The majority of people in NI want to remain in the EU, and they are all entitled to EU passports through Dublin.

Both sides could solve this. And both sides seem equally willing to re light fires. Although only one side is trying to change the current working system. It's all part of a deal that's the easiest in human history.
 
to be honest, the only time i have had to show my passport in europe was to enter my own country, the uk. If I fly from France, I have to wait for hours to get through passport control (cos the e-readers are shit and dont work) the only ones you wont stop are the illegas, hiding in lorries, and now sailing across the channel!
UK didnt sign up to shengan, so has had control of its borders.
 
froggy Steve said:
to be honest, the only time i have had to show my passport in europe was to enter my own country, the uk. If I fly from France, I have to wait for hours to get through passport control (cos the e-readers are shit and dont work) the only ones you wont stop are the illegas, hiding in lorries, and now sailing across the channel!
UK didnt sign up to shengan, so has had control of its borders.
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I think everytime I have flown into Europe I have had to show my passport, and yes the e readers are shit!!
 
moggy1968 said:
There was no attempt to understand an alternative POV,
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There was that's why you were asked to clarify your points & challenged.If criminals entering the UK are a significant danger then you first have to back up the argument with some facts & then we can debate what's to be done & at what cost.I wonder how many deaths on the roads could be prevented with speed limiters & breathalysers fitted to all vehicles? The technology exists.
Of course the rape & murder of a child is far more emotive which is why it's been used in this debate.
 
Look different nationalities have different "norms" , I have lost count of how many times Helen has come home from work recounting stories such as of how horrified at the matter of fact way a guy she works with admitted he gave his wife (who also works with Helen) a black eye because she wouldn't go to the shop for him .

Helen's furious reaction confused and scared him "you crazy , it normal , i don't know what you say , what is problem she my wife"

These are the values that are being imported .

The wife will never integrate , she's afraid to leave the house unless she's with him , which is why she wouldn't go to the shop . He will openly admit he is here because our government are stupid (he will knock his knuckles on his head when he says this) .

This of course is very low down on the scale of the British idea of unacceptable , but its a legal requirement that we all accept this "diversity" for the social enrichment of us backward thinking isolationists because morals are not profitable and that flies in the face of all the EU hold dear .
 
Where is this “legal requirement” written in the legislation?
 
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