The people have spoken

goodoldboy Nov 28, 2018

  1. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    What your saying is and I maybe wrong

    Europe are going to give us better terms for trading with terms than being in Europe. That would literally never happen on any trading point because if that’s the case, why be in Europe the whole point of a trading block then because null and void.
    The USA aren’t going to given us a better deal than Europe because we are a smaller economy and easy to strong arm into any deal they want.
    I mean just look at any business you don’t give the smaller customers a better deal than your bigger customers do you unless I’m doing business wrong.
     
  2. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    I'm a small business and I've had offers of "partnership" from much bigger companies in response i said these are my terms take it or leave it because i don't need you . I didn't need anyone else's permission to take that stance .
     
  3. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    So you are saying if the USA offer us a crap deal and Europe offer us a crap deal, we can just no take. Wonder how they will explain that to all the business that have to trade on WTO terms and go under and the massive unemployment that will follow.
    The government would be voted out and replaced by a government that will say yes.

    The difference between you and UK is that we need the deals.
     
    goodoldboy likes this.
  4. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    27 countries in the EU want a deal with the UK , specifics differ as will the terms but if India , Australia , China , USA whoever is offering the better terms for that specific ...........................
     
  5. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    Yea but they all deal with each other as well and you seem to forget, it’s not like they don’t talk or have trade deals they don’t want to affect between each other and they will not f*ck off America or Europe.
     
  6. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Yep its complicated for sure and the only dead cert is nobody wants to lose such a valuable customer .

    On a EU or American scale the NHS is but a drop in the ocean and while the complexity of it all is beyond me , very probably beyond any one mind i simply believe the freedom to negotiate unfettered will promote a positive outcome .
     
  7. GeekOKent

    GeekOKent Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    The NHS isn't profitable, how about the pharma industry that NHS buys billions of £ worth of stuff? That's what the American deal is about, isn't it ? And the NHS budget isn't free either is it ?
     
  8. GeekOKent

    GeekOKent Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    Again, no it's not a drop... The NHS is one of the largest single stream purchase org in the world (pharma or otherwise ). Guaranteed contracts where the suppliers can dictate terms are huge ££
     
  9. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    And the transatlantic trade investment partnership would safeguard this how ?
     
  10. GeekOKent

    GeekOKent Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    The NHS today set the price and control substance. Big pharma either joins, or has the potential of generic replacements be used. Most participate, for obvious reasons. Diluting this, to make it an open market, as the Americans want - entirely at the cost of the NHS budget, means a huge increase in supply chain and delivery costs. Directly impacting the health of a nation.

    Present state of the NHS is pretty grim, but compared to much of the rest of the world, the health care in the UK is in a fairly good place, but that should not imply that getting worse to find the average is a good move (?)

    I am not sure why you think the ttip has anything to do with it, isn't the deal largely behind closed doors? The one impact I do know is how patent and process protection allowed to US pharma isn't entirely endorsed in the EU today, and that's been on the agenda.
     
  11. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    TTIP just offers itself as a fine example of how being a member of the block dilutes control of the NHS which is entirely a single nation concern .
     
  12. GeekOKent

    GeekOKent Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    Ah, I see what you mean! We seem to be talking about different things. Yeah, depending on what they come up with. Although there was a report done sometime back that seemed to say there is nothing impacting how and what and control etc.

    But I do agree with what you are saying, i.e Free Trade does not always translate into Fair Trade.
     
  13. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    And why is any investment at all in the NHS seen in a negative light , i will take your word on

    "The NHS is one of the largest single stream purchase org in the world (pharma or otherwise )"

    I believe the UK is one of the worlds most advanced in medical research and development so is it impossible to believe that with the right strategy and some keen investment the UK could become the worlds pharmacy . Thats not likely to hinder the healthcare service .
     
    Chas likes this.
  14. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    You should know better than most Shayne that the big fish eats the little one but this corporate sea monster that the Tory party represents will eat the boat & it's catch , its crew , the docks & everything else in it's path I'd we let them.Being self employed or running a small business still means that you have very little in common interests with the big players.The NHS as you say isn't profitable but that's irrelevant to the vultures & asset strippers lined up.They're looking to plunder as much as the 130 odd billions spent every year & if the results are that public health provision is wrecked they won't mind.
     
  15. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Thats globalization goodoldboy , and which block is the main driver of it .

    fishermen once feared the weather but its insignificant now when compared to bureaucracy , my brothers wife went to college not long ago at 40+ years of age with 5 young kids to look after because there is no way he can fish and do the bullshit paperwork as well . The exact same paperwork a mate of mine who owns maybe 15 boats and the processing plants so takes the lions share of 55 million a year but of course he employs an entire team of desk jockeys and enjoys far more lenience with regards to submitting paper accurately and on time .
    I bet nobody ever threatened to take his license to work off him , i've lost count of how many times i've been threatened with the same .

    Without researching it i would not be at all surprised to learn the EU is producing millionaires and billionaires at a rate never before seen but how can that be when the electorate are rioting against policy left right and centre all over the EU ........................ its almost like democracy isn't working for some reason :confusion-shrug:
     
    goodoldboy likes this.
  16. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    I've mentioned the EU effect on the UK's fishing industry many times but the evidence , while available online if you look hard enough for it is sterilized and lost in long boring statistical pdf documents nobody wants to read . So i'm posting this up just because its the first time i have come across an article that offers straight forward common knowledge in and around any port in Britain .

    https://www.express.co.uk/comment/e...fishing-common-fisheries-policy-Brexit-latest

    In my opinion even a trillion pound investment could not bring it back because the breed of men that could make it work are almost extinct even if the skills required could be taught in a classroom which they can't .
     
    Chas likes this.
  17. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    The big fish has indeed eaten the little one.
    "But the UK has, for example, allowed four of the biggest quota-holders to form their own “in-house” producer organisations – essentially collectives with only one member. This, in effect, short-circuits the system and allows private companies to directly hold, manage swap and lease quota domestically and internationally.

    But the UK has, for example, allowed four of the biggest quota-holders to form their own “in-house” producer organisations – essentially collectives with only one member. This, in effect, short-circuits the system and allows private companies to directly hold, manage swap and lease quota domestically and internationally"
    https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/amp/
    The Express article is the usual mix of opinion & emotion.Boat owners successfully lobbied the UK government for scrappage payments , it was nothing to do with the EU.turning licences into a commodity didn't help.
     
  18. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Try t0 imagine your father inherited his taxi business from his father and you inherited it from him and worked at it most of your life at while training your son to take over , and then out of the blue your told you can only taxi people who hold a HGV licence ......................... only on Tuesdays ............... only between 9am and 5pm ........... and not when its raining .

    Your nobody wants to buy your taxi's because they would also buy the same rules - unless they attached your taxi license to a Rolls Royce .

    What will you do ?
     
  19. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Here's a boat with its nose chopped off in a desperate and insane attempt to fit the rules , there are many out there done the same .

    CHANNEL_FISHER.jpg
     
  20. Chris

    Chris Super Moderator Supporter I am in europe

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    I have not read back through the 55 pages of views, thoughts, insults and cat-fighting, but I have just signed this petition and read how to legitimately vote for none of the above and still have my vote counted rather than it being dismissed as spoiled. I do vote, I want to vote, it's my right and duty to vote but what can I do when there simply isn't a viable option that I can go for?

    https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petiti...ne-of-the-above-option-for-all-uk-elections-2
     
    Richard Turner and Shayne like this.
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