The people have spoken

goodoldboy Nov 28, 2018

  1. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    Seriously yes, this arguments comes up. Well heres a bombshell you can say that about any public service, I've used the police I want my money back, I've never used a hospital I want my money back, I've never had children I want all those school fees back.
    You don't actually pay a state pension, you pay national insurance, we have an ageing population and the biggest burned on the welfare system are the pensioners. I don't agree that a CEO of a company on a multimillion pound pension should be claim the same benefits as a person as say a teacher that couldn't afford a private pension.
     
    goodoldboy likes this.
  2. Rob Cowell

    Rob Cowell Well-Known Member I am in wales

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    Your state pension does not come from interest on payments. Your state pension comes from anyone paying NI right now. Your NI payments paid for the state pensions of those of pensionable age while you were working. You paid tax. Others in need at the time benefited from that.
     
    MarkW likes this.
  3. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Enrich your understanding of the world with a little social experiment .

    Buy a train ticket to take you 300 miles leaving your phone and wallet at home . While walking back contemplate not actually having a home to return to .

    Shame we can't force politicians to do it at least then they would have some real world experience to take back up the ivory tower .
     
    flint and goodoldboy like this.
  4. Chas

    Chas Well-Known Member Supporter I am in england

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    Thank you Rob and Steve, I can see now I have been thinking of my contributions in the wrong way, what you have said puts that right.
     
  5. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    Glad we cleared that up :)
     
    Chas likes this.
  6. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    This made me laugh , it seems the people of Hartlepool aren't dreaming of a British empire :lol:

    "I’ve come to the venue’s bar because this is where Farage officially launched the party’s election strategy of fielding candidates only in Labour-held seats.

    “He came, had a quick walk round, then off he went,” spits Morris, 48, herself an ardent Leaver.

    “I heard he had a pint in the King John’s,” notes Mark Herbert, 31.

    “I heard he didn’t drink it all,” comes a reply from another smoker listening in.

    There is momentary silence as this revelation – true or not – is contemplated. “No good,” concludes Herbert after a second."

    For context
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...pool-richard-tice-labour-tories-a9222766.html
     
  7. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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  8. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    “It’s a mess and has been for years,” says Dorothy Scott. “And it doesn’t matter who we vote for, it doesn’t change.”
    Property speculation , as you pointed out Shayne is one of the most destructive acts for working communities.So this millionaire property magnate is going to bring jobs & get things going?
     
  9. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Greed makes the world go round goodoldboy and nothing is going to alter human nature , and if its all about trade and freedom and making the world a better place then why not just scrap the whole EU idea and add 28 states to the United States of America .

    World domination would be easy then , and we could work to change policy from within , what could possibly go wrong :laughing-rolling:
     
  10. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    Isn’t that what’s already happen if Trump and Boris stay in power. Little GB state 51 with the USA bossing us around, over food regulation, ooooh and the NHS is up for privatisation by those friendly USA firms.
     
  11. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Who in their right mind would buy the NHS its not exactly a profitable business and what keeps about 400 million Americans alive if they don't eat ?
     
  12. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Holiday in America - take a packed lunch :laughing-rolling:
     
  13. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    1) Read this https://fullfact.org/europe/usa-trade-food-standards/ , what keeps them alive is highest level of adult obesity, highest level of drug usage per person. I mean personally I do care about what goes into my body. Take a read of this https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/banned-europe-safe-us/ seems like all those cancer coursing compounds are fine to be put in your food as long as it's cheap.
    2) They will not buy the NHS, they will slowly privatise the most profitable parts.
    3) You seem to hate to be control by Europe but are fine to be controlled by America hmmmmm
     
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  14. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Uncle Sam is offering me a larger menu to choose from while Adolf thinks he can tell me what i can and can't eat .
    Last time i looked we export more medicine than we import so while i accept i'm out of my depth i would assume that puts the UK in a strong position to negotiate trade in that specific area .

    I recently had a medical question about my hearing so rather than visiting my GP and starting a 2 year NHS process i paid £200 drove 20 miles for a 20 minute appointment and came away with a prescription .

    Did the same for my daughter in laws 4 month old baby and the eye infection she had suffered since birth , "throw all the medicine in the bin and just press her tear duct with your finger twice a day like this and she will be fine in a week"

    I have nothing but respect for the NHS and all those busting a gut to keep it working but they are overwhelmed and sending 10 trillion pounds to the EU will not help .
     
  15. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member Supporter I am in ireland

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    And if you think the 'American Dream' is the template for how to do things, then it's worth spending some time there.. all about money.. fine if you have it... Not so if you don't. Food is so heavily processed, and under-regulated that I feel unwell any time I come home from there. Their 'tipping' culture often means that workers in customer contact jobs are often underpaid, or unpaid.. medical bills are enormous, unless you can afford good private healthcare..

    Don't get me wrong,the US has some fantastic things going for it, but it's not the panacea... my brother moved there and married an American, the process taking 2 years to do correctly... Nearly as long as it took me to get on the Calais-Dover ferry this year...pre Brexit...
     
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  16. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Where did i say i have any interest in the American dream ?

    If the EU can work out a trade deal with the USA that shafts this little island then you can be sure they will , how would the TTIP if it were agreed effect these things ?
     
  17. Bob

    Bob Well-Known Member Supporter I am in ireland

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    More a general observation than a direct response to you Shayne.
     
  18. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    I'm finding this rambling thread rather had to even understand

    1) You are ok if uncle sam (American companies) feeds you chemicals that are know to course cancer but you hate Europe because they have banned them. I mean if you want to do that, then go for it, I'm not as happy when they start feeding my children that.
    2) I've said the most lucrative sectors, so not sure about what sectors, I'd have to do some research but guessing from the American market it seems, the best money maker is addiction rehabilitation for a start but that's just a guess.
    3) It doesn't put the UK in a good positions if Boris has to put the NHS on the table as that's the only thing they are really interested in, especially when the conservatives have said that's not going to happen.
    4) You paid 200 quid, well that's nice I'm sure everyone in the UK can just find that kind of money, well if Boris and Trump have there way that's what everyone is going to have to do.

    All I can say if the price of Brexit is to offer the American anything in order to get a trade deal, is it really worth it? Because we all know the Americans attitude isn't a win win situation it's a win for me, who cares about you.

    After all, the way the Brexit party are talking, I'm sure after Brexit the NHS will be well funded, there will be more police on the street, knife crime will end and puppies and kitten will play with each other.
     
  19. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    Greed - wanting more than your fair share - doesn't make the world go round , it's a problem & in fact it's a taboo .we bring our kids up to share & greed is usually parented out of kids at at early age.Only the greedy think it's ok & they've promoted this bullshit.
    Cooperation is what makes the world turn as we demonstrate here every day.
    As for human nature it's the oldest philosophical question , still unanswered.Whatever it is we're not slaves to it & have the freedom to make a better life.
     
  20. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    I understand the premise that a trading block is in a stronger position to negotiate but the agreement if ever reached will be a wholesale job lot one size fits all like it or lump it job done .

    As an individual nation trade negotiations with the USA and the EU and everyone else will be specific to this country alone . A lucrative market open to all and our strength will be in the competition to buy into it .

    If the worlds 5th largest economy can't benefit from that then nobody can and everyone wants to be PM when when things are good and so they will do what they can to keep the electorate happy even if the motive is entirely selfish .
     
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