The people have spoken

goodoldboy Nov 28, 2018

  1. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    This is a time bomb waiting to go off whether we leave or stay, and something few seem to realise, recognise or admit to. There is an entire subculture of people in this country of, for want of a better word, scrotes, who have never worked and don't intend to work, encouraged by a system that discourages people from working. The problem we have is they go off and have multiple little scrotes who will do the exact same thing and so the pool of scrotes is getting bigger and bigger while the pool of working people paying their taxes is getting smaller. I reckon we've got 2-3 generations max before this becomes economically unsustainable.

    But as you say, unless you have lived or worked amongst them, which most haven't you have no concept of the problem or that these people exist.
    They, not the immigrants, are also the largest claimers of benefits and the largest drain on resources such as the NHS
     
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  2. moggy1968

    moggy1968 Well-Known Member

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    People talking about man destroying the planet are displaying the arrogance of man, we are but a spec in the life of this planet.
     
  3. chapel gate

    chapel gate Well-Known Member Supporter Promoted Company I am in england

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    I agree, we won't destroy the planet. We will/are destroying our habitat and that of other species that have no say in the matter.
    I'm far from a do gooder, but I don't walk around with my eyes closed.
     
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  4. jibberjabber

    jibberjabber Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. The opposite to 'authority' is, 'Chaos' and I think this is what you would be happy with

    What about my other qustion are you going to answer that? When you say "I left a long time ago" what exactly do you mean? Are you in the UK ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  5. TONYCY11

    TONYCY11 Well-Known Member I am in cyprus

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    I totally agree with you Moggy , and amongst the largest benefit cheats are MPs etc , I am so glad my wife and I left the UK , a lot of the decent hard working people I knew also left the UK to live in Australia , New Zealand or some where , and whenever I go back to the UK to visit my Kids even though I know its for a short stay no more than 2 weeks , I look around and think what a shit hole the UK has become , but the truth is its been like that for 10 years or more I just did not notice it whilst I lived there , and I have only been gone nearly 2 years , people look soooo miserable and I dont l blame them , never in my life have I seen so many empty shops in Yorkshire and Lancashire town centres and street beggers sat in empty shop doorways looking drugged up and surrounded by beer cans . whilst other dossers wander around the place , seems a lot of decent folk avoid town centres now .
     
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  6. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    If i may goodoldboy it saddens me to see you label yourself . If i'm reading you right your something of a hippy rebel without a cause and you disagree with most things because like each and every one of us you dream of a world where we can just choose a spot to build our own home , raise a family , farm and rear cattle , be self sufficient , no income tax no vat no money back no guarantee - the good life .

    Its a romantic view to be admired but i grew up watching cowboy movies to , them damn fences and cattle barons :angry-screaming:

    But no amount of scorn for society can deny the fact that people do need structure and governance . Look at wildlife , throughout the animal kingdom there are leaders and followers predators and prey its natures way .

    We can only make the best of what we got and the only legacy we can win is knowing our kids will have something better to in turn make the best of .

    Edit :- every single report ever written about me , and there's been a few since i left school as well includes the words "has a blatant disrespect for authority", because they were written by educated muppets who will never know the difference between assumed authority and actual authority , circumstance dictates who holds it when .
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  7. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Did you ever sit down in the shop doorway for a smoke with them ?

    I do it all the time , shopping in Cardiff , drunk in Blackpool , waiting for a train just about anywhere i want a smoke and you can bet they do to so i will step over and offer them one asking wtf are you doing here .

    Never once have i regretted doing it because each and every one of them has a story to tell , humble and articulate they blame nobody but themselves for the mistakes they made , though often it was a job that didn't materialize had them travel far from home with no money that set them on this path .

    No address = no benefits - no benefits = no address you cant apply for a job when you have no address either .

    My advice to them "well fuck the drugs and beer beg a fiver and get a train to the next town and sooner or later you will get home"

    The common response "i can't go home to my mother like this"

    If i can i will buy them a meal because i won't give them money for drugs . One time i took the guy into mcdonalds and the staff started shouting he was banned . I didn't quite lose my temper but suffice to say he enjoyed his meal and feeling like a human being again if only for an hour .

    Yes there are scroungers but not nearly as many as you might think , walk a mile in there shoes before you judge them .

    I cannot offer evidence but i know with absolute certainty many were forced into the benefits trap (claiming dole) because they could not afford to work . Makes sense of that if you can but i know there is a valid economic argument for it and it results from lack of affordable housing .

    And if you would like to meet an ex British Army soldier have a wander around outside Cardiff university looking for a comfortable place to sleep at night .
     
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  8. TONYCY11

    TONYCY11 Well-Known Member I am in cyprus

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    We make our own path in this world , I have no sympathy for them , I went to a low class secondary modern school and left when I was 15 with no exams as did my brother because we both wanted to work rather than do exams , I worked from leaving school in 1975 doing no less than 70 hours sometimes a fare bit more a week until feb 2018 when I left the UK for sunny Cyprus most times getting only Xmas day , boxing day and new years day off , its like all things in life honest hard working people only get out of life from what they put , no one owes those dossers , druggies , alcos ,gamblers a living its up to them to not let themselves get to that level . I spent my home time as a parent teaching guiding my three kids that the only way to make your life happy and content is work hard and not piss your money up against a wall or shoot it up your arm or gamble it away , it put them on a path to success and good caring parents themselves .
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  9. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again , the great benefit fraud myth.Estimated - based on a series of assumptions that wouldn't get you convicted in a Saudi court - are around 2 billion a year or 1.1% of the benefits budget.1.1% = statistically irrelevant.Unclaimed benefits estimated to be between 10 & 20 billion a year.
    280000 tip offs on the grasses hotline over 2 years resulted in precisely no action being taken in any of the cases for lack of evidence.The rich and powerful who run the UK would laugh their balls off if they read this.An ordinary working bloke who has as much to loose as any other cutting the ground out from under his feet.Most folks I know in the UK , even those who have decent jobs & careers would be up shit creek if they suffered redundancy , sudden illness or accident.A gas guzzling 4x4 would be out of the question.Most of us here , I assume , would have family & friends that would be able to help.If I was unemployed the job centre would be the last place I'd look .The cutbacks are partly because of people like you who've supported the scrounger myth allowing successive governments to rip up the safety net.
    As for living & working amongst the "scrotes" when I lived in the UK I was regional manager for a national organization that works with homeless.I thought that me being born in a house with an outside bog & tin bath was the school of hard knocks but that was nothing compared to how some of the folks I met had grown up.The one thing that really shocked me was the hate , anger & resentment directed against these "scrotes" what sort of animals kick lumps out of someone reduced to sleeping in a shop doorway.Not everyone on benefits or homeless are saints but they're all scum? Have you met them all? Every town centre in my former region had it's collection of ner do wells , the usual suspects but very few were really nasty.Most , when you got to see behind the facade were quite pathetic failures , fallout from society.Disproportionately represented amoung the homeless were ex Armed forces , people you think would be equipped to deal with adversity.
    We have more in common with the unemployed & homeless that the spivs who run the country.
    What was remarkable about the homeless I worked with was the lack of bitterness.Most of them just wanted a fair shake not a hand out.So your impotence rage , hatred & resentment makes me want to puke.Just be grateful for what you've got & make the most of it while you can.
     
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  10. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Just takes a little resolve huh .

    Police knew me when i was maybe 4 years old lying through my teeth to them because mum who hadn't been home for days "just popped down the shop" , one local bobby took me and my younger sister to his house to feed us . I was working full time long before i was old enough to leave school because i never had nor needed anyone to rely on and reputation ensured i was never short of work .

    Then one day i woke up in hospital and the only person i could trust was smashed up bad , i had no place to turn there was nobody to reach out to , i was finished and so i resolved to kill the cunts who put me there and get dead doing it . But luck and fate intervened so now i'm doing fine as are the people i employ though i don't doubt for a second you , me , him , anybody can't be brought down lower than they personally believe possible by circumstance beyond their control .
     
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  11. TONYCY11

    TONYCY11 Well-Known Member I am in cyprus

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    Sure we can all be brought down , but its up to us to get back up , giving up or expecting to others to pick me up is not my style , every one (adults ) has their own way or should have their own way of dealing with life ,
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  12. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    If only that was true Tony plenty of binmen & laboures would be retiring to Cyprus.Chance & circumstance play a big part in how our lives turn out.It's obviously worked out well for you in part to your sacrifice but not everyone can run their own business.I've been lucky in my life & yes hard work has made the most of the opportunities I've had but a lot of folks are working their balls off to stay afloat.
    Yes if we're able & have the opportunity.what would you have done Tony if your business had gone under?it's easy to think that you would be able to get out of a hole when you're no in one.The confidence & skills you have learned over the years can't be acquired in a moment.success can build success but some never experience that.
     
  13. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    No mate more of a punk although I did hang out with a few hippies , good mates as well.Authority should be justified IMO - if a fireman tells us not to smoke at an accident we should respect that.But the same as you don't need anyone to order your life I think that the best people to run things are those who put the work in.My logic is that nurses & doctors should decide what's best for the NHS no some manager on a fat salary.Government is there to tell us not what to do & most of society functions without officials or coppers constantly watching over us.
     
  14. Shayne

    Shayne Well-Known Member Guru

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    Layer upon layer of detachment from the reality .

    Draw up the plans for your dream home and pay a man in Australia to contract it out to a team in Portugal who will source materials from India and labour from Sudan to build your cottage in Devon and what will you get ?

    A stomach ulcer probably .

    Which brings us back to the threads origin , Might paying a man in London who contracted a team from Manchester using materials from Cornwall and labour from Cardiff at least give you some hope of getting a cottage in Devon that resembles what you wanted ?
     
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  15. goodoldboy

    goodoldboy Well-Known Member

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    I'm not scornful of society , quite the opposite.The dog eat dog philosophy brought in by Thatcher has almost wrecked any sense of solidarity we had.Whatever happened to cheering for the underdog? We need more community & mutual support IMO .Structure us also vital but why can't we the ordinary people have more of a say on how things work?
    As for the cowboys , I think we're on the same page.Butch & Sundance are still heroes of mine.
     
  16. TONYCY11

    TONYCY11 Well-Known Member I am in cyprus

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    what if my business would have gone under ? , I would get a job employers love hard working people , I was never out of work from the day I left school , I went straight in to a job the day after I left school , and from the age of 10 I always had a paper round Monday to Thursday after school and Saturday mornings and helped out at the cattle market near where I lived every Friday after school . most of my friends here who are all Brits are all ex firemen or ex RAF or Army or other hard working Brits who have come to sunny Cyprus , had these people pissed their wages up against the wall every weekend none would have been in a position to retire here as they were earning just a average wage , its how you workout your life for the future in how you live the future when that time comes, its not luck its good management .
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  17. steverjuk

    steverjuk Well-Known Member Supporter I am in uk

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    Lets take an example:
    What if you 60 years old, your going to find it incredibly hard to find an employer if you look at that statics nearly 70% of over 60s feel that putting their age on there CV affects the number of job interviews that they have have, so it's hard to find a job, then lets add the fact that your homeless no address no job no job no address and lets also add the fact you have no family or friends to support you. I can easily see why "hard working" people become homeless and what you people call scrotes.
    When peoples rant about I've worked all my life etc it is know as survivor bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias) because it happened to work for you it must be the correct action. I've worked all my life and have a very good standard of living but I know I'm incredibly lucky that it's paid off I'm under no illusions that if I became disabled / very ill that I'm not likely to have to sell my house / cars and hope that my savings last long enough to get better / find a new job.
    Then lets add some statistic to explain why things aren't as bad,

    Unemployment rate : 3.7%
    Worst case benefit due to fraud and error: 2.2%

    Welfare budget spend: 31.1% of total spend

    Pensions: 42%
    Incapacity / Disability: 16:
    Unemployment benefits: 1%
    Housing benefits: 10%
    Tax credits: 18%
    Other: 13%

    So 1% of 31.1% of the total UK spend is spent on unemployment and of that fraud is 2.2% of 1% of 31.1%. I personally think we need to look at the pension system and tax credit system. Why should working people have to claim benefits to survive. Because the business they work for, do not have fixed hour contracts and don't have to pay holidays, sick days and sometimes even not the minimum wage. Also why should final salary pensioners also be able to claim the state pension my 2 cents.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  18. Paddler Ed

    Paddler Ed Well-Known Member I am in australia

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    I'm 40 next month, so I'm right on that Gen X/Millennial boundary; I got some of the benefits of the Gen X era (local government pensions, £1,000 tuition fees), but also suffered a bit of the Millennial challenges (9/11, 2008 etc)

    In the 22 years I've been in the workforce I have only ever had one job that didn't have a time limit on it and was full time - and that was going to be canned during the 2010 Austerity cuts, so I got out before that became a problem.

    I've had other work that was full time, but that was often seasonal or overseas (visa dependent).

    I've claimed working tax credits, job seekers allowance and housing benefit when I was able to. I've been lucky enough that family have been able to help at times during those periods, which has meant it's not been as hard as it could have been. Ultimately however, this has kept me grounded with those less fortunate.

    I've worked on zero hour contracts, I've worked for minimum wage and I've worked for apprentice wages. I've also been in situations where I've probably been in the top 25% of earners in an area. You take the rough with the smooth, and some of those wages were due to the lifestyle I was living whilst working (outdoor activity centre work is rubbish pay... unless you're freelancing or working for council - I've done all 3).

    Am I behind where my parents were at the same age? Hell yes... in some ways... I was 8 when my Dad was this age, and I distinctly remember a conversation about moving to Canada at that time - it all fell through. I've been based in Australia now for nearly 9 out of the last 10 years (which is a bit scary in it's own right) but I'm actually still not stable there - I am getting closer, should get things started next month to settle that down. However, I've worked not only in the UK and Australia, but also France and Switzerland, and enjoy getting up to go to work each day. I rent a tin shed house, and am proud to run cars that only cost me £2000.

    What does the future hold for any kids I might have? In all honesty, I really don't know what that's going to like - generally it feels like a more and more divided place on many different levels.
     
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  19. Rob Cowell

    Rob Cowell Well-Known Member I am in wales

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    Agree with all of this. I think the unemployment benefit fraud calc is slightly flawed. The 2.2% figure is across all benefit apart from pensions and disability. For unemployment alone it's 0.8% [1]. So even less than stated.

    The only thing that annoys me about paying tax is universal credit. I am subsidising companies who don't pay their employees enough to live on.

    Money lost to unemployment benefit fraud annually, £130M. Money lost to tax avoidance annually, £35B[2]. 270X as much. And yet the tax avoiders have convinced some voters the problem is with the unemployed. And this is proper, illegal avoidance, not the sticking your HQ in Amsterdam and leasing your UK operation a brand, or other such nonsense.

    [1]https://assets.publishing.service.g...d-error-stats-release-2018-2019-estimates.pdf

    [2]https://assets.publishing.service.g...le/820979/Measuring_tax_gaps_2019_edition.pdf
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  20. Chas

    Chas Well-Known Member Supporter I am in england

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    Seriously? I am lucky enough to receive a final salary pension and I would willingly forego the state pension if they paid me back all the contributions I paid in that was taken from my wages, the interest from which pays for the pension I get. I realise some of that interest came from employers contributions, but I would be satisfied to get back just mine.
     
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