Basic Recovery Gear Advice

[Sam]

It's not that I'm lazy... I've looked around... It's more that I'm clueless

I want a tow rope. That's easy - buy one that's strong enough. But I'm reading a lot about the towing points being tie down points etc. etc. etc. - so I need one of those things that spreads the load between both eyes right?

I think my question is simply where's the best place to get one? Considering price vs durability etc.

Anyone got 2p to chuck in? Need to fill up the drawers now that they're almost done

 

[Ben]

ok a few links for you Sam.

1 x 10meter, 8 ton strop.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KINETIC-snatc ... 1658wt_932

a short 2meter strop to use as a bridal to even up the load on the chassis.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x4-RECOVERY- ... 1578wt_932

2 D shackles to connect the above to the 2 chassis recovery points.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-3ton-D-shac ... _500wt_949

im not saying buy those exact ones, but gives you an idea.

dont be tempted by cheap un-rated shackles and ropes, this is one area where its better to spend a bit more and get something decent.

vehicle recoveries can be dangerous, and even fatal if/when they go wrong.

 

[karl webster]

Kinetic strap sam

Better than a rope by far if a truck is stuck.

Ben may have a link.

 

[Ben]

top link is a kinetic one Karl.

kinetic ropes are excellent for towing with. if i ever have to tow another car on the road its the first rope i reach for.

 

[karl webster]

Sorry ben

They are great things. Havnt got one yet but dave has

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Don't forget you're towing if you use a kinetic on the road, I did once pulling away from a junction, I floored it and the little Suzuki I was towing nearly overtook me

 

[karl webster]

Don't forget you're towing if you use a kinetic on the road, I did once pulling away from a junction, I floored it and the little Suzuki I was towing nearly overtook me

 

[SimonD]

It is my understanding that kinetic ropes should only be used for snatch recoveries due to the forces involved. For towing you should use a tow rope. If you are towing with a kinetic strap and it breaks you could kill a bystander. In addition, continuous stretching of a kinetic rope shortens the number of times you can use it for an actual recovery. Right tool right job :twocents-mytwocents:

 

[Nick Shepherd]

If you are towing on the road and a kinetic strop snaps then it was definitely not a good kinetic strop for recovery.

You would be well served with the bits Ben linked to and a very long (20m+) static/non-stretch strop so you can get a helpful pull on someone without getting in to whatever they are stuck in.

 

[Ben]

interesting point of view Simon.

try towing someone with a normal tow rope, and then try it with a kinetic.

it might not be recommended, but its so much nicer to use for towing on the road!

im sure if you follow all recommendations then you would replace strops, ropes, D shackles etc. after a year or 2 of use regardless of appearance/condition, but how many of us actually do that?

each to there own i guess.

 

[fridayman]

It is my understanding that kinetic ropes should only be used for snatch recoveries due to the forces involved. For towing you should use a tow rope. If you are towing with a kinetic strap and it breaks you could kill a bystander. In addition, continuous stretching of a kinetic rope shortens the number of times you can use it for an actual recovery. Right tool right job :twocents-mytwocents:

This is my understanding of kinetic vs tow ropes too.

 

[Jon Wildsmith]

Kinetic is probably a bad idea for quite a few reasons but in my case it was a short tow on road following recovery off road and changing ropes would have seemed like too much trouble A thin and barely up to the job rope might be best because then at least the person being towed can slam the brakes on and the rope should snap and not force them to be pulled out in front of an oncoming vehicle or something.

 

[Chris]

I think that there is little point stressing over some of these issues when you actually see what people fasten the equipment to in the first place. I wouldn't tow with a kinetic simply because I don't want it trailing on the road at junctions, or being run over by the second vehicle. I would say that it would be safe, you certainly aren't going to kill a bystander. That is in the realms of the fanciful. Typically there's only 20% elongation in them anyway. Once that 20% has been recovered (if they snap) then there is a huge reduction in potential energy in them. They are quite heavy. Being kinetic and having the ability to take quite a tug, it's unlikely they'd snap under towing load. The problem with snapping things - outside of steel ropes, is generally what's fastened to the end of them should the whole thing come off. Non steel ropes and straps snapping in the middle is not a huge event. But, and I repeat my earlier point, if the tow point comes off under tension, it can become a significant projectile.

I'm all for being safe (some of you know what I do for a living) but I think that there is a good deal of paranoia around some of this at times. We should all have the ability to tell when something isn't safe to be used anymore. I'm with Ben, if a shackle looks and works ok - it probably is. Ropes are harder to assess, yes, so don't lend them to people. You know the history then. Any recovery, no matter how basic needs a quick think through and an agreement of what's going to happen. I have seen some appalling lash ups which have gone wrong, but I can't actually recall seeing a thought through plan using average kit go dangerously wrong. Fail, yes, but not dangerously. It's usually too many people involved, no one person in control, people doing things when they shouldn't and no recognition of what might fail.

What gets me is those who choose to go off road (not laning) with nothing more than a rope round the bumper and a hopeful smile when they're stuck. Buy a winch you tight****e t**t, tree strop, couple of shackles and a good 10m strap or rope, maybe a snatchblock too, should be sufficient for normal recoveries. Some waffles or similar would be a very useful addition too. Obviously making sure that you have solid recovery points too. Even with a winch, you will need somewhere to double the rope back to. In any case, I would not want to tow someone by their winch rope

Chris

 

[SimonD]

I would say that it would be safe, you certainly aren't going to kill a bystander. That is in the realms of the fanciful.

Sorry, i didn't phrase it very well - it was only two cents worth anyway. I didn't mean the rope would break - it was my very shorthand way of saying scenarios could occur that lead to more dangerous situations towing with a snatch rope than a tow rope. For example, front guy takes off and kid on bike jumps of pavement causing second bloke to brake. Whatever - insert your own scenario.
My point was some people believe that the stretching of the strap is relatively gentle on vehicle recovery points and therefore is safe to use. However the the load placed on the strap from a moving vehicle can be extreme and well beyond the loads of the designed fixing points on both vehicles. These are the things that will fail and injure people not the rope.
Anyway, if a snatch rope is 10 per cent longer than when you bought it it is pretty much cactus for snatches. Towing with it will merely hasten this process. However, it is obvious that a snatch strap can be used for towing - i just wouldn't do it.
From an Aussie website:
It?s surprising how many well-equipped 4x4s don?t carry a tow rope:
they?ve got recovery bags with the full kit of extraction gear, but no
simple tow rope.
You can use a snatch strap for this purpose, but the elasticity of a
tow rope is the last thing you want when you?re flat-towing and
need the two machines to keep as uniform a speed as possible.
Heavy towing will also „kill? that elasticity, making the snatch strap
useless for its intended role.

 

[Chris]

Simon, wasn't having a go. Just a general observation. I still don't really buy the scenario. Someone going 'through' the rope, say on a bike could happen in any towing situation - why just with a kinetic? There is a legal max length for a tow rope to stop cars from pulling into the gap between. So whatever you use, it has to conform. I don't know how much you have used kinetic products, but they aren't twangy like an elastic band. You basically leave slack and then gun the tow vehicle until it can't go any further. This hopefully pulls the stuck vehicle out. It's hardly a sympathetic process. Saying (not you, the web extract) that towing will shorten the life of a kinetic strap is a bit strange. Are they suggesting that yanking it repeatedly in recovery situations is not a problem? I know you can't answer that.

Not sure what you meant by the rope being 10% longer than when you bought it. Maybe they do elongate over time, but I have never had that experience. Mine have always stretched and returned. OK I don't measure them, but I haven't heard that they creep. So many products out there it's hard to say. I dunno

I actually have a kinetic bridle which can go between two points. The main rope would then be a static rope. This can give a small 'shock absorber' effect if needed. It takes quite some pull to stretch a KR at all. And unless as someone said, the dead vehicle had its brakes on, I doubt you'd notice much effect over a std pull. A rolling 4x4 might be heavy, but it's not stuck in mud, it's pretty easy to get going. Honestly, I think quite a bit of this is just myth.

Chris

 

[Sam]

Thanks for the links Ben

... and thanks to everyone else for chipping in - even though you've probably done it a few thousand times already for us mortals

 

[SimonD]

No worries Chris My 10% cactus rule is if you have a 10m kinetic strap and it now measures 10.1m you may as well replace it given 10.2m is the 20% maximum stretch in a typical kinetic strap. Kinetic ropes stretch more so the cactus rule would be longer. I have seen the stretch longer than the original length.

I agree on an equaliser - i need to get one.

The thread gives me an excuse to post a video of my favourite 4wd specialist John Rich of South Africa - love the bloke:
[youtube:2c2wbx6t]2JBnxSqpuCM[/youtube:2c2wbx6t]

The safety loops are a John Rich special - you don't see them much.

 

[Sam]

Enjoyed that - thanks Simon

So now I know what I'm getting - any tips on good stuff / ones to avoid?

I'm looking at Damar and the shop on ebay from one of Ben's links at the moment...

 

[Chris]

Still not quite with you there Simon. Are you suggesting that kinetic products stretch and fail to return to their original length over time. ie your 10% only leaving 10% in the subsequent pulls. I have to say I have never heard of this. Left to recover, the rope or strap should return to its original length. If they do permanently stretch then they must have a finite life, which again I haven't heard of or been supplied details of when I have bought one. Measuring it would be easy I guess.

Good basic video that; only I would never advocate pulling someone from a front tow point, in reverse. Many a front diff been destroyed like that. Maybe a gentle pull if unavoidable but a snatch even with a kinetic is really not a good idea.

Chris

 

[SimonD]

Yes I am Chris, almost exclusively when they have been overloaded. I have seen it in my Army days. Most good kinetic straps have an overload indicator thread sewn into them. When you see this it has been overstretched/overloaded. Not all straps have these though so we learned that a simple way besides the usual visual inspection was to measure it - if longer than when you bought it, it is starting to fail and yes, i have seen one longer [which makes it only an anecdotal story].
Plenty of manufacturers suggests you should only use them a certain number of times http://www.bushranger.com.au/snatch_strap.php#.T5EyedmDl8E but this is probably to get people to replace more often. Looking after them keeps thems working for years.
My comments by the way were more about straps - common in Australia - rather than ropes. I inherited a snatch rope here in the UK and they are hardier/heavier but more expensive than snatch straps. Stretch more too.