eu in or out poll

[Chas]

In my youth I preferred lets do it not I may.I wouldn't have wasted time on her.

That's it, the majority voted OUT, what's to negotiate? how many immigrants we let in? when do we stop paying the EU millions? we want out, goodbye, adios, farewell be seeing ya!

 

[Shayne]

I understand the sentiment of we voted out so be done with it , hell imo we should never have been in it in the first place !

But

Think of it as a divorce , the house you built is on her families land , her father has equal shares in your business and doesn't like you very much anyway . The kids want both parents and both sets of grandparents etc etc etc . You can walk out the door and be done with it but you will be left with nothing but the clothes on your back , or you can make a deal aimed at limiting the damage to everyone and hopefully keeping the kids happy while you move on to your fresh start .

 

[Rob Cowell]

Come on then, how do people think it's going?

We have a weak currency but are members of the single-market; the same combination that has served Germany so well. Anyone with a broad share portfolio is doing well. I hope what manufacturing we have is doing well through increased export orders, although I haven't seen figures to support that. We're starting to see inflation kick in, even if so far it's been confined to yeast based spread, and boxes of tea. The EU-Canada trade deal is falling apart because Wallonia don't approve.

David Davies has suggested we switch to Vegemite. Which helpfully is traded only in sterling and doesn't have any freight costs. Tory back-benchers murmered suffciently for the bones of a deal to be debated openly, rather than hidden from democratic processes. The opposition leader seems weak and ineffectual to me, but at least there are some people in his party starting to push for some accountability from the Brexit team. A team with no current legal expertise about to plough into the murky world of international and consitutional law.

I'm still quite depressed about it. I can't see it going well for 10 years or more. Clearly we haven't left yet so haven't seen much of an effect yet.

 

[hopeless wanderer]

Is $1.22 to the Pound. The BofE are warning that it's going to hit the poor hard (can they really be hit any harder considering we've been tipping the disabled out of their wheelchairs of late)
The EU are being pretty clear about it, there will be no "Soft Brexit"
Shayne described it as a divorce and that's the way I see it, you may think she is going to remember the happy times and you're going to go back to being friends. The truth is your stuff is gonna be in a black bin liner, she is keeping the house and the car, she is having a slice of your pension and you are going to still pay out .... Same as before.
After the Bank of England announcement I saw a post where one numpty was whining the chairman Is a Canadian and that he would say that, and we should have an English Chairman not some foreigner
There is a real chance we are going to see an independent Scotland soon too, if we want to free ourselves of a system of governance that does not represent us or is "foreign". I don't see how we can deny Scotland the same right.
All we need now is interest rate hikes and a housing market collapse and we are truly in deep caca.
What we need is a Trump victory and the subsequent dollar crash could help, but given the fact he is claiming the election is rigged, even he probably knows he isn't going to win.

 

[Shayne]

A hard Brexit was the only ever option , the EU cannot afford to see Britain succeed if it wants to retain totalitarian control . 10 years is a fair estimate i think but every obstacle they throw at us only serves to reinforce the growing concern in other member states that they are a conquered people .

While focused on the big picture the EU lost one small but very important state so what's going to happen when instead of the bigger picture they are focused on punishing that state . The dictators are losing control and that's a one way street .

The Bank of England don't know what "poor" means nor do politicians , to a poor fella a pound buys a pasty and he can only afford one regardless of how many dollars that pound is worth . I truly believe Scotland had a high percentage of remainers simply because the poor people didn't bother to vote and a re-run , with the threat of being ruled by Brussels attached , would bring them out in droves .

 

[Rob Cowell]

The Bank of England don't know what "poor" means nor do politicians , to a poor fella a pound buys a pasty and he can only afford one regardless of how many dollars that pound is worth . I truly believe Scotland had a high percentage of remainers simply because the poor people didn't bother to vote and a re-run , with the threat of being ruled by Brussels attached , would bring them out in droves .

I knew someone would reply eventually

Problem is those poor people buy stuff that needs oil to produce and oil is traded in dollars. Those pasties need to be delivered in oil burning vehicles, or cooked using electricity from oil burning power stations. The meat and veg need to be transported to the pasty factory, or artisan bakery. Farmers burn fuel in harvesting feed for pasties, or feed for cows. I'm sure some pasties use non-UK meat, and flour, which now costs more in the UK. Maybe the poor are partial to a smear of marmite, multinational companies don't work out the specific currency effects on hundreds of products, they look at how their dollar or euro calculated balance sheet looks.

A weak pound should help manufacturers who export, but that is offset to an extent by anything they use that has to be imported. And affected for better or worse by changes to tariffs in the markets they export to.

Not seen a turnout against income map. Someone must have done one, be interesting. % of young people correlated well to low turnout, and they are likely to also be of relatively low income. Not sure I get the idea that the poor in Scotland wouldn't vote if they thought they'd otherwise be ruled from Brussels. I thought that was the premise of the vote we just had.

 

[Shayne]

Poor people is an incorrect pigeon hole , a university student might be described as poor even if both parents are doctors earning 100k + per year and it might take him/her a little while to start earning the same .

I am referring to those who are quite certain nobody in gov gives a flying duck about them and the only pigeon hole name i can think of that fits is "the majority".

We are ALL ruled from Brussels and i'm sure there are many in Scotland who feel nobody gives a damn about their own want for independence so why waste 5 minutes to assist those south of the border who want the same .

With regards to all the import , world trade blah blah blah he doesn't care why should he , he doesn't want a fake fajita made from Nigerian rats processed in Germany and packaged in France , he wants a pasty and if he can't get one he will have a bag of chips instead .

Have the Bremain camp discussed food rationing yet or is that to be next weeks headlines .

 

[Rob Cowell]

We can go through a list, but a weak pound will mean *everything* costs more. Fertiliser needs to be transported to the farm. Herbicides will be used in any large scale potato farm, and they need transporting and will likely be owned by a multinational. Harvesting and transport, more fuel. And it'll be fun to try and harvest everything with JCB Fastracs (assuming that every component in one of those is British sourced). Ditto the seed for the oil to cook them in, or see above for cattle if you want to fry in dripping, or you can substitute pigs for lard (lots of foreign soya in their feed).

We don't produce, and I don't think can produce anything like the biofuel. Large scale electricity production could help us, and I suppose a nuclear plant will now cost the Chinese less to build. We'll need a lot of electric vehicles. Maybe an opportunity, but we don't have any large scale manufactures so it'll be a while before someone can lumber into action. Probably on the back of more Chinese investment.

No need to ration food, economics will take care of supply and demand. You can dress it up under any amount of disenfranchisment, but those with limited means will inevitably suffer more.

We haven't started yet with farm subsidies after 2020, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the promises around those (which weren't well defined) will be about as valid as the NHS funding.

 

[Shayne]

There are no rose tinted goggles on my head Rob we are heading into a terrible storm without a doubt but i still believe the destination , as uncharted as it may be , is the right one .

 

[Rob Cowell]

There are no rose tinted goggles on my head Rob we are heading into a terrible storm without a doubt but i still believe the destination , as uncharted as it may be , is the right one .

We half agree

 

[Shayne]

on half a sentence i guess but its progress

 

[Rob Cowell]

on half a sentence i guess but its progress

An entente cordiale!

 

[Shayne]

Just came across this reader's comment in reply to another nonsense news article from another respectable journalist calling all British people racist and i thought it might cheer you up a little to tear it apart

Copy and paste

Here are some figures the government doesn't advertise:

The extra cost of immigration:

Local authority race relations: £3.1 million

Higher education race relations: £6.7 million

Commission for Racial Equality: ££32 million

Translation costs: £100 million

Ethnic minority awards scheme: £169 million

Security: £174 million

English lessons for immigrants: £280 million

Cost of treating immigrants with HIV: £330 million

Border controls: £690 million

Money sent home by foreign workers: £1.4 billion

Asylum support and processing: £1.6 billion

Cost of immigrant crimes: £ 4 billion

Total: £8.8 billion

This is on top of the £12 billion in foreign aid, much of it unaccounted and sent to shady organisations and unsavoury dictators for political reasons.

In the meantime, councils, NHS and other vital infrastructures and public organisations see their budgets ruthlessly cut in the name of austerity.

Immigration like this is not beneficial, it's more like a growing tumour on the body of Britain.

Fact.

 

[Rob Cowell]

A few initial observations would be;

The figure for benefit to the economy has been missed which invalidates the whole list. I could produce the same categories for those of us with 20 generations of UK history and we could conclude that we're all a burden.

Where do the figures come from, is there a citation? Some of those figures look tricky to calculate so would be good to know how they were gathered, eg cost of crimes by immigrants, "security".

And then, why is border control a cost of allowing immigration? Surely you need border control, unless you allow all immigration. If there is a tighter immigration policy surely that cost then goes up, not down.

Money sent home by immigrants doesn't cost us money, any more than people buying Japanese made cars, or car parts, costs us money. The £1.4bn / year looks like a low estimate compared to some I've seen, but compared to the £45-40bn/month the UK spends on imports isn't much.

The NHS is going to get £350m a week as soon as we leave the EU so even if the numbers are correct it's more than offset by the savings we'll make just through EU subs, right?

 

[Chas]

The NHS is going to get £350m a week as soon as we leave the EU so even if the numbers are correct it's more than offset by the savings we'll make just through EU subs, right?

Where did you get that from? if it was from our Nigel, that wasn't what he said, he actually said that that amount COULD be spent on things LIKE the NHS not that it would be.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Where did you get that from? if it was from our Nigel, that wasn't what he said, he actually said that that amount COULD be spent on things LIKE the NHS not that it would be.

What the wording that everyone saw ACTUALLY said was, "We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead". I think it would be silly to spend all of that on the NHS. But as the NHS has just been told it needs to cut £22 billion, I'm going to summise that precisely none of that will go to the NHS.

I haven't followed Nige's proclamations closely enough. What is the dosh now intended to be spent on?

 

[Chas]

What the wording that everyone saw ACTUALLY said was, "We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead". I think it would be silly to spend all of that on the NHS. But as the NHS has just been told it needs to cut £22 billion, I'm going to summise that precisely none of that will go to the NHS.

I haven't followed Nige's proclamations closely enough. What is the dosh now intended to be spent on?

Well I heard him say that, so if that was seen was a misquote.

 

[Rob Cowell]

Well I heard him say that, so if that was seen was a misquote.

I don't think the Brexit Bus attributed it as a quote to Nigel. I know the £350million doesn't exist. The number was a gross figure in the first place, and ignored our rebate. It was always wrong. My comment about it was a tongue in cheek comment as a reaction to the numbers Shayne pasted for discussion.

My annoyance is with the way people use un-cited figures to make a point. If they cited their sources, and included economic benefit to migrants it would be the basis of a sensible discussion. By throwing some numbers down, some of which would increase if migration was restricted and writing "fact" at the end of it, gives the message no credance unless you exhibit shovelfulls of confirmation bias.

 

[Chas]

I don't think the Brexit Bus attributed it as a quote to Nigel. I know the £350million doesn't exist. The number was a gross figure in the first place, and ignored our rebate. It was always wrong. My comment about it was a tongue in cheek comment as a reaction to the numbers Shayne pasted for discussion.

My annoyance is with the way people use un-cited figures to make a point. If they cited their sources, and included economic benefit to migrants it would be the basis of a sensible discussion. By throwing some numbers down, some of which would increase if migration was restricted and writing "fact" at the end of it, gives the message no credance unless you exhibit shovelfulls of confirmation bias.

There was a thread about this on Facebook and in it someone posted a link to Nigel being interviewed which was where I heard him say that Rob.

 

[Rob Cowell]

There was a thread about this on Facebook and in it someone posted a link to Nigel being interviewed which was where I heard him say that Rob.

I certainly saw him say that on the morning after the referendum. He was on Question Time and said he'd like to see the money spent on doctors and other stuff I can't remember. I suppose he can say he'd like anything he wants given he's fairly sure he'll never be in a position to have that responsibility.