Clive's HZJ80

clivehorridge Aug 26, 2016

  1. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    OK I can cope with that, if that’s what it needs. Was your alternator charging though Ben? Mine appears to be working fine, at 14.2V on the meter.

    I’m also changing the v belts next week. It’s been slipping (squealing) first thing in the recent damp mornings the last few days. It only lasts a minute or two, but while the belts are screaming the output is down.

    Seems quite logical, but the warning lights have only just come on since then.
     
  2. Ben Stratford

    Ben Stratford Well-Known Member Supporter I am in england

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    Yes it was charging but down at 26.5v. Worth checking Clive. It may be fine but spookily similar.
    When the alternator went on my first 80, the dash has a few lights on and after a couple of weeks it lit up like a christmas tree
     
  3. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    Yep, so I’ve heard. Haven’t had the Christmas tree syndrome yet...

    When mine failed a couple of years ago, it did so very slowly, just getting weaker progressively, so it was changed before any warning lights came on.

    A fuse check day tomorrow, if that doesn’t cure it, it will be up to the ‘experts’ at my trusted service garage to sort it out :lol:
     
  4. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    I think Ben has the reason for this. Now I've got to that memory and blown the dust off it it seems more like the alternator. If you need a good new one or parts to refurb, have a word with Mike at Robson and Francis. I dare say he could get something sent over to you.
     
  5. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    Ok Rich, thanks.

    I’m still foggy as to how an alternator can be delivering 14.2V at running speed, yet need replacing, or at least throwing up a warning light (which I’d have thought would be triggered by it not producing any or low Volts) and... what’s all that got to do with the fuel / water separator?

    You know I hate electrickery, this is a classic example of why .... :angry-screaming:
     
  6. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    On the alternator, it relies on diodes and an electronic regulator that varies the voltage to the rotating field winding as well as notifying if things go wrong. My guess is that either a diode has gone bad or the regulator itself is failing. I don't know which as I haven't studied them. :)

    On the water separator, if a diode has gone, perhaps the circuit is somehow linked and that lamp is now earthed through the bad diode. A quick look in the FSM shows the fuel filter warning is fed via the 'charge' fuse. IMG_3282.PNG Might be worth checking that fuse (some hope for my grey cell yet!). A bad diode could possibly cause the power to be fed through the filter lamp. Further reading needed to confirm this, or inspection of the 'charge' fuse.
    Under bonnet '4' below.
    IMG_3283.PNG
     
  7. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    Sorry to have put you to all this trouble Rich, I didn’t intend to do that with my post, frustration was kicking in I’m afraid...

    What you say makes some sense to me though (if I skip all the long words) so in my severely limited capacity, I’ll check all the fuses today, just in case.

    Anyhoo, with 14.2V showing on the meter, I don’t think I’m heading for dead batteries over the next couple of days, and by then I can get it to the service guys. I know they won’t try to cheat me into a another new one for no proper reason.

    They’ve got Mr T drive belts on order for me (they say pattern belts don’t have the correct angle of V section) so at least they need fitting, as well as finding a reason for the the warning lights.

    Thanks mate for all your efforts :thumbup:
     
  8. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    I've not had a problem with the Gates ones fitted to mine. They bed in after a short while anyway.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    flint likes this.
  9. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    OK, not a particularly good day attempting fault finding I’m afraid.

    Such as (from the very kindly provided diagrams above)

    Fuel Filter Warning System
    1. Inspect warning light
    (a) Disconnect the connector from the warning switch and connect terminals on the wire harness side to connector.

    Of what? Where?

    Is this at the filter?

    There’s a bundle of wires and connectors there and I have no idea what piece the warning switch is, so I didn’t get very far with that.

    Then I noticed that the white plastic tap on the bottom of the filter was dripping, from where I’d attempted to drain any water off yesterday. It wouldn’t tighten any more so I loosened it again and retightened it, in case whatever shuts off the flow wasn’t seating right.

    That wasn’t a good idea as it happened, because then (after retightening it) it was just pouring out. :?

    Panic...

    Ok, don’t panic, (me talking sense into me).

    I couldn’t reach the tap very well, so I took a 12mm socket and undid the filter casting from its support bracket and flipped it upside down.

    Now I could see the tap, unscrewed it and realized there’s an “O” ring on the tap bit, that does the shutting off when you tighten it. It looked a bit hard and crusty, so I left it alone. I’ve got some O rings but none quite that small and not so “fat”.

    Anyway, I found some windscreen washer water jet tubing and slid that over the tap end, with a piece cut from a 6” nail to bung the other end of the tubing. Remounted the filter assy. Not dripping now, but it’s a bodge.

    Engine wouldn’t start :shock:

    Ah, fuel, thinks me.

    Primed the filter with the hand pump thingy... engine started... lots of black smoke :shock:

    Mmmm, maybe it needs a run a bit to warm up and bleed off any air.

    It drove ok around the block and the black smoke stopped (there isn’t a “sigh of relief” icon is there?).

    Checked all the fuses (all OK) and thought best not mess with it any more.

    BTW, what’s a “dome fuse” Rich? All the fuses I could see were those colored plastic spade thing type, with a squiggly wire thing inside. All good under the hood and those in the fuse box inside.:thumbup:

    Both warning lights still on, and still I’m getting 14V/14.1V/14.2V at the meter.

    I’ve given up gracefully... it was “grace under pressure” if that means anything to anyone...
     
  10. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    Hmm, i think it reads to connect (bridge) the connections on the wiring loom side of the separated connectors. In other words, you're replicating the switch inside the filter. If you have someone watch the light then alternately remove and replace the bridge, the light should flash on and off. The other test is with a meter set to ohms on the terminals of the float switch side to test the float by lifting it up and down.

    Dome fuse = fuse 10 … "Dome". :whistle:
     
  11. Dervis Garip

    Dervis Garip Well-Known Member Supporter I am in cyprus

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    Sorry to hear of your troubles Clive. I know it’s not obvious but this similar thing happened to me recently.

    I had a belt squeal although slight upon startup ran for a few months and checking the belts didn’t show anything. Batteries tested ok the situation got worse and the issue was the main thripple pulley becoming loose. It wasn’t apparent till noise and vibrations became evident enough to investigate further.

    Tightened that and no squeal or vibrations no battery issue now all.
     
  12. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    OK Rich, I know when I’m beat. What’s a “dome” anyway, I wonder:think:

    Float switch? Where’s that?

    Bridge I can imagine, but be which terminals?

    As I say electrickery is not my favorite, leave it to someone that knows, is my best bet.

    Thanks for your attempts to educate a dummy. It’s driving so I can get home and then get it to the service guys, at least i keep someone knowledgeable in business :lol:
     
  13. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    Thanks Dervis, but in my case, I’ve inspected the twin-belts and they’re due for change, cracked and stretched and generally looking like the 100k km that they’ve done. Can’t complain. The pulleys look and feel OK if that’s any guide.
     
  14. StarCruiser

    StarCruiser Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in uk

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    The "dome" fuse I think you could say domestic, it is a kind of General fuse that does lots of things.

    The plug for the fuel filter float switch should only have 2 pins and connect to a tail out of the bit that screws into the bottom of the fuel filter cartridge. On the inside of this bit, that also contains the drain wing nut thingy with tube (and now nail too), is the float and it's associated switch.

    I think we may have a red herring or two floating about here and my gut says it's an alternator fault or something to do with the alternator.
     
  15. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    Ah, so the whole of the white plastic assy on the bottom of the filter would be the “float” assy as a whole then? There are two wires coming out of that.

    Yes, I drift towards the red-herring theory, both lights came on together, so I’m going to focus on the performance “health” of the alternator. Certainly first, anyway.

    Thanks mate here’s a bad photo of my nail “bung”, I don’t know how long that will last, but without it, diesel dribbles out of the tap...

    View attachment 140407 63FD38FB-095A-4375-9C11-DC034ECA94BA.jpeg
     
  16. Ben Stratford

    Ben Stratford Well-Known Member Supporter I am in england

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    The water separator on the 60 is attached to the chassis rail under the drivers seat which is eadier to access.
    The charge lamp relay was my first thought and I changed it as the max ellery stated what it should read. It turns out the new relay read the same and the manual had a typo!!
    Thats when the focus changed to the alternator
     
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  17. Dervis Garip

    Dervis Garip Well-Known Member Supporter I am in cyprus

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    Ok Clive good to hear. Just as a recommendation these Bando belts are awesome of you can get them there a Japanese brand. They run for 200,000km life cycle.

    A7DDE24C-E3A9-413C-9608-2545C011892B.jpeg
     
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  18. Dervis Garip

    Dervis Garip Well-Known Member Supporter I am in cyprus

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    Clive I’ve im not if I’d understood right but is your sensor cap screwed to the bottom of the fuel filter faulty in leaking?
     
  19. clivehorridge

    clivehorridge Well-Known Member Supporter Guru I am in romania

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    It wasn’t leaking at all Dervis, until I loosened the little bleed tap in the center of it, then found I couldn’t stop diesel from coming out of the tap’s tube, when I re-tightened it.

    There’s no leak from the plastic assembly, or where it screws to the filter can.

    If you unscrew the tap right out, it has an O ring on it that looks permanently “depressed” on the face where it contacts the hole supplying diesel from the filter in the plastic assy, and I don’t have a replacement O ring the right size.

    Not to worry, its not leaking with my bodge-job and I’ll get it to service next week for them to sort out.

    I’d replace the whole plastic assy if needs be, and if there’s any change from selling a kidney.

    Otherwise, it might cost me the price of an O ring.

    Cheers
     
  20. Dervis Garip

    Dervis Garip Well-Known Member Supporter I am in cyprus

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    Haha Clive good to hear that should be a simple gasket fix for you and with some new belts back as should be.

    I know it’s always something :crazy:

    Just needs a little TLC Clive and it’s all good as gold.
     
    clivehorridge likes this.
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