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The people have spoken
- Thread starter goodoldboy
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The people voted on a question.. leave or stay... They didn't vote on Leave backwards and on fire, leave a little bit, leave but not leave, leave with a deal, leave but still get the cheap wine from France... etc.. etc...
The deal v no deal issue is too important, and parliament is not functioning. I'm not simply saying hold the referendum again, I think the people need to consider the position in light of what they know now.. Brexit 2016 and Brexit 2019 are not the same
The deal v no deal issue is too important, and parliament is not functioning. I'm not simply saying hold the referendum again, I think the people need to consider the position in light of what they know now.. Brexit 2016 and Brexit 2019 are not the same
Rob Cowell
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Why do 'The People' need to vote again? the country has voted once already. I know why I voted and nothing has happened to make me change my mind, and there must be many more like me.
Because the party that was elected to deliver the result of the referendum does not have a parliamentary majority and can't even decide amongst itself how to deliver it. And the party they bribed to back them up has done a runner with our cash, although they can't spend it because they can't agree to form a government in their own bit of the UK. You must have seen it, it's been on the telly quite a bit.
Firewout
Well-Known Member
Yes and we all love John Bercow.
Chas
Well-Known Member
Brexit 2016 and Brexit 2019 are not the same, no their not, but could have been and saying "They didn't vote on Leave backwards and on fire, leave a little bit, leave but not leave, leave with a deal, leave but still get the cheap wine from France" just clouds the issue even more. I just want out, no deal, not bothered about cheap wine, just want to be rid of unelected bureaucrats telling us what we can and can't do
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I understand your view Chas, and there's plenty who agree with you. There's also plenty who voted leave who wanted a deal favourable to the UK. I don't think anybody wanted the circus to come to town. And boy what a circus
Rob Cowell
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The negotiation just begun , for 3 years the remain campaign has shackled the Lion so the zookeepers had no need to negotiate at all . Tonight the zookeepers are crying themselves to sleep because finally they realize the Lion is dying and no Lion means no circus .
The EU is heading into recession already , its a foregone conclusion that Eurosceptics will infest EU corridors of power very soon . Without the British cash cow those same Eurosceptics will be asked to bankrupt their own citizens to shore up the already failed ideological fantasy of an ever closer union . They cannot let no deal happen .
Must wonder if Bercow predicted this when he said the same deal cannot be voted on again without substantial changes to it . Only the EU can alter the deal text and finally they have every reason to make concessions .
Thats how i see it anyway .
The EU is heading into recession already , its a foregone conclusion that Eurosceptics will infest EU corridors of power very soon . Without the British cash cow those same Eurosceptics will be asked to bankrupt their own citizens to shore up the already failed ideological fantasy of an ever closer union . They cannot let no deal happen .
Must wonder if Bercow predicted this when he said the same deal cannot be voted on again without substantial changes to it . Only the EU can alter the deal text and finally they have every reason to make concessions .
Thats how i see it anyway .
Bert
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It is not the end of the world. Have a cup of tea, or in my present case, a nice beer. Whatever happens, generally, we will all be ok in the end.
I like my (ordinary) neighbours far and wide just fine, it's just the suits I have little care for.
As before, as now, I say nay.
I like my (ordinary) neighbours far and wide just fine, it's just the suits I have little care for.
As before, as now, I say nay.
Just my 2 cents , tough I don not live in UK it affects me as well.
Unfortunately, the bureaucrats in Bruxelles can't dictate anything, look at Poland or Hungary who destroyed their justice systems, EU is foaming at the mouth but really it is nothing they can do about it, Hungary PM is negotiating back deals with Putin with no worries.
UK, like any other country had the Veto right on all important things, exercised by your elected PM, plus all the opt outs they negotiated at the entry, like non Schengen, no euro etc. Nobody forced UK in to anything.
At work I have colleagues from an international background, from all over, and after the initial shock in 2016, now most of them are a bit amazed and amused at what is going on now with the MP's and Theresa May.
Nobody will shed a tear for BMW selling less cars in UK, they are expensive anyway and who buys them they will afford the extra 10 % or what ever the tariff will be. The impression is that as long the UK decides what it wants, the EU will negotiate in good faith, but here people had enough of this circus and in the EU we need to move on to more important debates, and a lot of people hope that this will not be prolonged any more.
Don't get me wrong, I have all the sympathies for UK, it is a big loss for the EU, I think a lot of lies have been told by the leave campaign, but also a lot of people have been left behind not only in the UK but in all Europe by the financial crisis and globalization, and leavers have very valid points about a democratic deficit in the EU project and for sure a lot things can be improved.
And the worst of it all, the biggest mistake done all over Europe, including UK and US, nobody paid for the crisis we had it by doing time or loosing money but the tax payer. The richer got more rich and the poor and middle class got left behind. And this anger now it is showing in lot of votes, not only in the UK but all over.
Will the populist provide a solution ? Time will tell. In Italy, the only country where they are in power, they did nothing significant but bark at EU with a lot of noise and than business as usual.. kept the huge italian bureaucracy there in place 0 public investment.. economy down the drain.
In the case of UK, EU was an easy target to blame for anything, like it is happening all over. If not EU it would have been the the Bank of Japan, China, the Free Masons, just about anything except the people at the top.
Your thinking that EU will make concession is very optimistic. UK last month got blocked in WTO by Chile, and UK does not even have a preliminary talk with any other country in the World, and it has been almost 3 years..
Don't worry, it will take a miracle and some very serious commitments from UK to get an extension beyond June, no matter what your parliament or PM decides. Unless of course you guys change your mind
and stay in after all.
It will be your choice as a country on what kind of relationship you want to have with EU after, I hope it works out well, but by the looks of it.... you will probably get your hard brexit or none.
I hope I did not offend anyone, it was not my intention.
Unfortunately, the bureaucrats in Bruxelles can't dictate anything, look at Poland or Hungary who destroyed their justice systems, EU is foaming at the mouth but really it is nothing they can do about it, Hungary PM is negotiating back deals with Putin with no worries.
UK, like any other country had the Veto right on all important things, exercised by your elected PM, plus all the opt outs they negotiated at the entry, like non Schengen, no euro etc. Nobody forced UK in to anything.
At work I have colleagues from an international background, from all over, and after the initial shock in 2016, now most of them are a bit amazed and amused at what is going on now with the MP's and Theresa May.
Nobody will shed a tear for BMW selling less cars in UK, they are expensive anyway and who buys them they will afford the extra 10 % or what ever the tariff will be. The impression is that as long the UK decides what it wants, the EU will negotiate in good faith, but here people had enough of this circus and in the EU we need to move on to more important debates, and a lot of people hope that this will not be prolonged any more.
Don't get me wrong, I have all the sympathies for UK, it is a big loss for the EU, I think a lot of lies have been told by the leave campaign, but also a lot of people have been left behind not only in the UK but in all Europe by the financial crisis and globalization, and leavers have very valid points about a democratic deficit in the EU project and for sure a lot things can be improved.
And the worst of it all, the biggest mistake done all over Europe, including UK and US, nobody paid for the crisis we had it by doing time or loosing money but the tax payer. The richer got more rich and the poor and middle class got left behind. And this anger now it is showing in lot of votes, not only in the UK but all over.
Will the populist provide a solution ? Time will tell. In Italy, the only country where they are in power, they did nothing significant but bark at EU with a lot of noise and than business as usual.. kept the huge italian bureaucracy there in place 0 public investment.. economy down the drain.
In the case of UK, EU was an easy target to blame for anything, like it is happening all over. If not EU it would have been the the Bank of Japan, China, the Free Masons, just about anything except the people at the top.
Your thinking that EU will make concession is very optimistic. UK last month got blocked in WTO by Chile, and UK does not even have a preliminary talk with any other country in the World, and it has been almost 3 years..
Don't worry, it will take a miracle and some very serious commitments from UK to get an extension beyond June, no matter what your parliament or PM decides. Unless of course you guys change your mind
and stay in after all.It will be your choice as a country on what kind of relationship you want to have with EU after, I hope it works out well, but by the looks of it.... you will probably get your hard brexit or none.
I hope I did not offend anyone, it was not my intention.
Last edited:
moggy1968
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Countries like Romania, Bulgaria, and Poland have profited greatly from the EU and will continue to do so for some time so it is no wonder that what you are hearing in Romania is pro EU.
Have a look at the video I posted on the previous page, the EU, and Germany especially, has a lot to lose if the UK leaves without a deal. So do Romania, Bulgaria and Poland.
Have a look at the video I posted on the previous page, the EU, and Germany especially, has a lot to lose if the UK leaves without a deal. So do Romania, Bulgaria and Poland.
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No deal is rather pointless when each of the 27 will continue to trade with the UK anyway . Remove the ideology and its illogical to create hindrance .
Regulatory alignment could be offered of its own accord by any national Government anyway and why must European courts police it rather than the world trade organization ?
Of course that alignment only covers trade with the EU and should have no bearing on trade deals made as a free country with the rest of the world .
We buy a lot from the EU that could be sourced elsewhere much cheaper and because the UK is once again open to free trade you can be sure they will want to sell it to us , so the 95 billion deficit on goods traded with the EU (2017) will soon be reduced , a surplus in goods and services provides stimulus to rebuild our manufacturing base = jobs , growth and prosperity . All against a backdrop of EU growth stagnation , austerity and warnings coming out of Germany that they are on the verge of economic crisis .
Get out quick and just maybe we the UK might be in a position to save the EU when it collapses .
Regulatory alignment could be offered of its own accord by any national Government anyway and why must European courts police it rather than the world trade organization ?
Of course that alignment only covers trade with the EU and should have no bearing on trade deals made as a free country with the rest of the world .
We buy a lot from the EU that could be sourced elsewhere much cheaper and because the UK is once again open to free trade you can be sure they will want to sell it to us , so the 95 billion deficit on goods traded with the EU (2017) will soon be reduced , a surplus in goods and services provides stimulus to rebuild our manufacturing base = jobs , growth and prosperity . All against a backdrop of EU growth stagnation , austerity and warnings coming out of Germany that they are on the verge of economic crisis .
Get out quick and just maybe we the UK might be in a position to save the EU when it collapses .
Chas
Well-Known Member
For the first time in history, UK will probably see end of May before end of April.
It is a 2 way street mate, all multinationals and banks have record profits made in Romania, and if the romanian and polish nurses would leave tomorrow the UK, your NHS will crumble like a sand castle.
Second point is that Romania in particular for the first 5 years of membership was a net contributor because it lacked capacity to actually receive the development funds. And it is a fact that what ever is built with EU funds it is built by big multinational contractors, so most of the money, except some low salaries payed locally return to West.
So it is mutually beneficial. If you live under the impression that the money are handed out like in charity, it is very wrong, it is all big business.
But the biggest gain in Romania was the fact that because we signed the treaty we were obliged to reform, to reform justice, to have a rule of law, our retard politicians were only stopped from doing what ever they wanted only by the EU and fear they will loose access. Unfortunately they discovered recently that their fear is unjustified and most of the gains we made specially fighting corruption and rule of law are now in danger.
This is why Romania in particular you can safely say it is mostly pro EU, they trust more Bruxelles than our own politicians.
Of course the EU has something to lose if UK leaves, the issue is that EU can very easily pay the price . It is a problem of size, EU even without the UK it is almost 9 times the size of the UK in population, market, budget what ever.
International politics and economy is not like sex, there, size really matter
.I don't like everything about EU, but the alternative is much worse. Only united you can compete with China, US, Russia .
You think alone you make better deals ? Trump stated clearly they will only talk with UK if you let the big pharma in to NHS and open the market for chlorinated chickens and what ever else substandard food they make in the US.
Why would anyone give special special treatment to UK ? it is all business and you need to have something to offer. Right now the top UK product that is the envy of the world and everyone wants a piece of it is that London is the world capital of money laundering.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...sh-unexplained-wealth-orders-money-laundering
But that will hardly be something to rely on, money laundering does not create a lot of middle class and prosperity.
D
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Guest
I think people 60 and upwards are not affected in staying or leaving the EU in anywhere near as much as young people who have their working future still ahead of them , and to many of these older people Nationalism has raised its ugly head , I lived in the UK during the referendum and voted to stay , not for myself but the young working people like my three kids who still have around 30 years working life ahead of them and with small children to bring up . My next door neighbor voted to leave , and his excuse for voting to leave like many others in Yorkshire who were fed the propaganda by Brexit campaigners that Polish and Lithuanian people were stealing their jobs , I told him if a Polish or Lithuanian who can barely speak English can win a job over You means to the Employer that you must be a crap worker to not get the job .
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Leelo Romania is a beautiful place with a chequered history and because i visited a forum member who lives there several times along with other UK members i can appreciate your view . The lax laid back attitude of the place is , for us , is its charm but of course Romanian locals likely see the same as lack of opportunity and corruption .
Its early days for you as an EU member but not for us , rest assured the Romania you know now will not exist 20 years from now and the place of your birth will no longer resemble home .
We never lacked democracy , you mention the NHS and imported nurses , we must import them because EU employees who do not represent this country really don't see the need to spend anything training home grown nurses , doctors and surgeons or any body else for that matter .
We in Britain once had everything you hope the EU will bring to Romania , we want it back .
Its early days for you as an EU member but not for us , rest assured the Romania you know now will not exist 20 years from now and the place of your birth will no longer resemble home .
We never lacked democracy , you mention the NHS and imported nurses , we must import them because EU employees who do not represent this country really don't see the need to spend anything training home grown nurses , doctors and surgeons or any body else for that matter .
We in Britain once had everything you hope the EU will bring to Romania , we want it back .
